Just bought a Shopsmith Mark V

Moderator: admin

User avatar
DaOldGuy
Gold Member
Posts: 62
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2022 3:59 pm

Re: Just bought a Shopsmith Mark V

Post by DaOldGuy »

chapmanruss wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 12:49 pm John is having a little fun with JPG. :D MKII vs 1007

JPG gave you the short version and good information for the Sanding Disk. I can expand a bit on that if you are interested.
Jointer Bevel Cut.jpg
Thanks... I may have questions once I get things moving and more so when I find a deal on a conical. :rolleyes:
I watched a youtube from My Growth Rings (Scott Markwood) yesterday and he showed different advantages of the conical disk which completely made sense after watching.

My Yard Sale watch list was NEED Desk Top Belt/Disc sander and want/would be cool to have a small lathe. :D
This has happily moved me above both, I will get over not having a belt for now.

Main hobby has been building RC Airplanes and this is all happy overkill. We like the planes to be big, eyes are not as good as they used to be.
A friend flying, I was on camera and edit for this demo.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57uV7nXsxvA

I do like other things and just built a house, so all is very good. I have much plans to do other things.
1955 Mark 5 Greene "A"
Needs Un-Gilmer'd and some love.
User avatar
JPG
Platinum Member
Posts: 33469
Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:42 pm
Location: Lexington, Ky (TAMECAT territory)

Re: Just bought a Shopsmith Mark V

Post by JPG »

I see an early greenie splined quill shaft and a shaft spacer that is easily confused as a second bearing. So I conclude it has a Gilmer drive.

The "extra" screws are a "feature" of the "A" headstocks.

If that is indeed a second bearing, thee has a modified quill.
╔═══╗
╟JPG ╢
╚═══╝

Goldie(Bought New SN 377425)/4" jointer/6" beltsander/12" planer/stripsander/bandsaw/powerstation /Scroll saw/Jig saw /Craftsman 10" ras/Craftsman 6" thicknessplaner/ Dayton10"tablesaw(restoredfromneighborstrashpile)/ Mark VII restoration in 'progress'/ 10
E[/size](SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange
User avatar
DaOldGuy
Gold Member
Posts: 62
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2022 3:59 pm

Re: Just bought a Shopsmith Mark V

Post by DaOldGuy »

JPG wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 8:14 pm I see an early greenie splined quill shaft and a shaft spacer that is easily confused as a second bearing. So I conclude it has a Gilmer drive.

The "extra" screws are a "feature" of the "A" headstocks.

If that is indeed a second bearing, thee has a modified quill.
Dang it JPG!
So that guy on the internet that says "If there is a second bearing, you will know if there is something located about 4 inches in" might be wrong?
Well Bun of a Stitch.... I got a narrow flash light in there and the entire bushing turns with the shaft in the Quill, While it has grease, it also has some slop. Looks like I may need a new one.

You have mentioned an A + B head stock before.
This one on a video looks just like mine colors included, but it lacks screws... Likely the B?
same colors less screws.jpg
same colors less screws.jpg (27.69 KiB) Viewed 224 times
1955 Mark 5 Greene "A"
Needs Un-Gilmer'd and some love.
User avatar
chapmanruss
Platinum Member
Posts: 2723
Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2014 8:16 pm
Location: near Portland, Oregon

Re: Just bought a Shopsmith Mark V

Post by chapmanruss »

I mentioned it in one of my earlier posts here. There is a lot of the history and the changes made to the Mark 5/V in my thread Shopsmith Mark 5 What When and Where from here in the Community section. When the Mark 5 was introduced in March of 1954 it had the "A" Headstock which started with 8 screws to hold on the Belt Cover. That changed to 6 screws in 1955. Later in October of 1955 it changed to the "B" Headstock still using 6 screws to hold on the Belt Cover. In 1957 the Belt Cover was changed again to be held on by only the 2 screws we still see today. The "A" Headstock included a high speed lock under the speed dial held on by the power switch. This speed lock was discontinued with the change to the "B" Headstock. That speed lock is one of the easiest ways to tell an "A" Headstock from an early "B" Headstock.

The Mark 5 Greenies were painted in a combination of Hammered Finish Green and Silver paints. The reason the paint on the Headstock casting itself doesn't match the Motor Pan is the difference in materials they are made of and time. That is unless someone has painted it differently at some point.

Some of those videos you can find online can be a great help but can also be misleading as JPG points out for the single bearing Quill of the Gilmer Drive Mark 5's. That quick check "trick" from the video doesn't take into account the bushing (as you call it) inside your Quill. In the first Mark 5 Owner's Manual it is part number A3061 called a Spindle Washer. It is on the Spindle and should not contact the inside of the Quill sleeve. Judging by your description there is really no need to change the Spindle Washer on your Quill. It wasn't until September of 1984 that Shopsmith began supplying two bearing Quills for the Mark V. Poly V drive Mark 5/V's can be changed to the two bearing Quill without additional changes being necessary. There have been some who made two bearing Quills by machining single bearing Quills adding a second bearing back inside the Quill body.
Russ

Mark V completely upgraded to Mark 7
Mark V 520
All SPT's & 2 Power Stations
Model 10ER S/N R64000 first one I restored on bench w/ metal ends & retractable casters.
Has Speed Changer, 4E Jointer, Jig Saw with lamp, a complete set of original accessories & much more.
Model 10E S/N 1077 oldest one I have restored. Mark 2 S/N 85959 restored. 10E S/N 1076 & others to be restored.
User avatar
DaOldGuy
Gold Member
Posts: 62
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2022 3:59 pm

Re: Just bought a Shopsmith Mark V

Post by DaOldGuy »

chapmanruss wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 1:46 pm I mentioned it in one of my earlier posts here. There is a lot of the history and the changes made to the Mark 5/V in my thread Shopsmith Mark 5 What When and Where from here in the Community section. When the Mark 5 was introduced in March of 1954 it had the "A" Headstock which started with 8 screws to hold on the Belt Cover. That changed to 6 screws in 1955. Later in October of 1955 it changed to the "B" Headstock still using 6 screws to hold on the Belt Cover. In 1957 the Belt Cover was changed again to be held on by only the 2 screws we still see today. The "A" Headstock included a high speed lock under the speed dial held on by the power switch. This speed lock was discontinued with the change to the "B" Headstock. That speed lock is one of the easiest ways to tell an "A" Headstock from an early "B" Headstock.

The Mark 5 Greenies were painted in a combination of Hammered Finish Green and Silver paints. The reason the paint on the Headstock casting itself doesn't match the Motor Pan is the difference in materials they are made of and time. That is unless someone has painted it differently at some point.

Some of those videos you can find online can be a great help but can also be misleading as JPG points out for the single bearing Quill of the Gilmer Drive Mark 5's. That quick check "trick" from the video doesn't take into account the bushing (as you call it) inside your Quill. In the first Mark 5 Owner's Manual it is part number A3061 called a Spindle Washer. It is on the Spindle and should not contact the inside of the Quill sleeve. Judging by your description there is really no need to change the Spindle Washer on your Quill. It wasn't until September of 1984 that Shopsmith began supplying two bearing Quills for the Mark V. Poly V drive Mark 5/V's can be changed to the two bearing Quill without additional changes being necessary. There have been some who made two bearing Quills by machining single bearing Quills adding a second bearing back inside the Quill body.
Yeah... it was the fella that worked for shop smith on one of their videos, in hind sight, he was their writer for 5 years of Hands On. I confirmed that this is the old Sand Cast with no maintenance hole under the emblem. He also mentioned Shop Smith could update it by adding a hole. Cutting 60 year old cast does not sound fun.

The one document I have, sent to the last owner from SS indicated forced upgrade to a Drive Sleeve, Poly V Belt, Poly V Sheave, and Double Bearing Quill, all to replace those Gilmer parts mentioned, which I had hoped he had done. Could toss a high horse motor in it as well I guess.

Everything you mentioned matches, I am not sure what the High Speed Lock is that you mentioned, but by name I am not sure what I am looking for.
IMG_20220630_175317506.jpg
IMG_20220630_175317506.jpg (41.18 KiB) Viewed 168 times
IMG_20220630_175343056.jpg
IMG_20220630_175343056.jpg (54.21 KiB) Viewed 168 times
1955 Mark 5 Greene "A"
Needs Un-Gilmer'd and some love.
User avatar
DaOldGuy
Gold Member
Posts: 62
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2022 3:59 pm

Re: Just bought a Shopsmith Mark V

Post by DaOldGuy »

Just looked up the parts and it is 403.81 push tax and delivery... I will be going through Ohio in Aug, maybe I can stop in and just pick them up
1955 Mark 5 Greene "A"
Needs Un-Gilmer'd and some love.
User avatar
JPG
Platinum Member
Posts: 33469
Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:42 pm
Location: Lexington, Ky (TAMECAT territory)

Re: Just bought a Shopsmith Mark V

Post by JPG »

Not sure pickup will work. SS AIUI does not do that sort of thing anymore.

You definitely have an"A" headstock and yer pix above are indeed of the speed above saw-jointer interlock.

With it running, when you attempt to increase the speed above saw-joint it should hit that stop. You must depress the metal strap with the arrow in to allow adjustment above that point. This assumes a period accurate indicator ring that is different on the back side from the current ring.
╔═══╗
╟JPG ╢
╚═══╝

Goldie(Bought New SN 377425)/4" jointer/6" beltsander/12" planer/stripsander/bandsaw/powerstation /Scroll saw/Jig saw /Craftsman 10" ras/Craftsman 6" thicknessplaner/ Dayton10"tablesaw(restoredfromneighborstrashpile)/ Mark VII restoration in 'progress'/ 10
E[/size](SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange
User avatar
DaOldGuy
Gold Member
Posts: 62
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2022 3:59 pm

Re: Just bought a Shopsmith Mark V

Post by DaOldGuy »

JPG wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 9:57 pm Not sure pickup will work. SS AIUI does not do that sort of thing anymore.

You definitely have an"A" headstock and yer pix above are indeed of the speed above saw-jointer interlock.

With it running, when you attempt to increase the speed above saw-joint it should hit that stop. You must depress the metal strap with the arrow in to allow adjustment above that point. This assumes a period accurate indicator ring that is different on the back side from the current ring.
You are correct, they replied to email stating they don't work weekend nor do they have a retail store any longer. :(

I will check that out, I have not run it all the way up as of yet.
Thanks
1955 Mark 5 Greene "A"
Needs Un-Gilmer'd and some love.
User avatar
chapmanruss
Platinum Member
Posts: 2723
Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2014 8:16 pm
Location: near Portland, Oregon

Re: Just bought a Shopsmith Mark V

Post by chapmanruss »

Adding the access hole to the back of the "A" Headstock can be done. I haven't done it myself, but I have seen information on doing it. The hole cutout was made by marking the circle on the Headstock casting. It would be the same diameter as the spacing between the holes for the attachment posts on the "A" Headstock Name Plate. The important thing to end up with are the ears on either side of those original holes and completing the circle top and bottom past the ears. Drilling holes around the inside of the circle marked in the casting and finishing with filing the circle smooth is one way I saw someone had done it. The first picture below is an "A" Headstock casting showing the two holes for the Name Plate. The second picture is of a "B" Headstock casting with arrows indicating the ears that keep the Name Plate straight. The "A" Name Plate and "B" Name Plate are the same with the addition of the clip to keep the "B" Name Plate in place. If you do this change you will need to get a "B" Name Plate. The Name Plate Shopsmith currently sells as replacement parts here on this website is for the "C" Headstock and is different in its attachment than the "B" Name Plate. You will have to find a "B" Name Plate on the used market.

_
Headstock A back.jpg
Headstock A back.jpg (86.92 KiB) Viewed 96 times
Headstock B back tabs.jpg
Headstock B back tabs.jpg (99.79 KiB) Viewed 96 times
.
You have expressed an interest in upgrading from the Gilmer Drive to the Poly V drive if it hasn't been done by a previous owner. I am not sure if you have determined that yet. There is an option to buy the needed parts on the used market. This is something I don't often recommend but Mark V owners upgrading to the Power Pro Headstock doing the Do-It-Yourself option are left with extra parts which are the Poly V parts you need and often they sell them on online auctions. Most are in good condition being removed from running Mark V Headstocks. Many have double bearing Quills. There can be savings going this route but a word of caution it is still a buyer beware market so ask questions as to the condition of the parts.
Russ

Mark V completely upgraded to Mark 7
Mark V 520
All SPT's & 2 Power Stations
Model 10ER S/N R64000 first one I restored on bench w/ metal ends & retractable casters.
Has Speed Changer, 4E Jointer, Jig Saw with lamp, a complete set of original accessories & much more.
Model 10E S/N 1077 oldest one I have restored. Mark 2 S/N 85959 restored. 10E S/N 1076 & others to be restored.
User avatar
DaOldGuy
Gold Member
Posts: 62
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2022 3:59 pm

Re: Just bought a Shopsmith Mark V

Post by DaOldGuy »

chapmanruss wrote: Fri Jul 01, 2022 12:20 pm Adding the access hole to the back of the "A" Headstock can be done. I haven't done it myself, but I have seen information on doing it. The hole cutout was made by marking the circle on the Headstock casting. It would be the same diameter as the spacing between the holes for the attachment posts on the "A" Headstock Name Plate. The important thing to end up with are the ears on either side of those original holes and completing the circle top and bottom past the ears. Drilling holes around the inside of the circle marked in the casting and finishing with filing the circle smooth is one way I saw someone had done it. The first picture below is an "A" Headstock casting showing the two holes for the Name Plate. The second picture is of a "B" Headstock casting with arrows indicating the ears that keep the Name Plate straight. The "A" Name Plate and "B" Name Plate are the same with the addition of the clip to keep the "B" Name Plate in place. If you do this change you will need to get a "B" Name Plate. The Name Plate Shopsmith currently sells as replacement parts here on this website is for the "C" Headstock and is different in its attachment than the "B" Name Plate. You will have to find a "B" Name Plate on the used market.

You have expressed an interest in upgrading from the Gilmer Drive to the Poly V drive if it hasn't been done by a previous owner. I am not sure if you have determined that yet. There is an option to buy the needed parts on the used market. This is something I don't often recommend but Mark V owners upgrading to the Power Pro Headstock doing the Do-It-Yourself option are left with extra parts which are the Poly V parts you need and often they sell them on online auctions. Most are in good condition being removed from running Mark V Headstocks. Many have double bearing Quills. There can be savings going this route but a word of caution it is still a buyer beware market so ask questions as to the condition of the parts.
Thanks for those photos, it makes complete sense what needs to be done from what you outlined here. Cast (pot metal) requires care, 60 year old cast, even more I think sometimes. :D
I considered staying with the existing emblem, cutting to hole as large as the emblem would hide and leaving the holes for the emblem on like a tab. I have seem many automotive emblems that have inserts that can be put in the hole that allow the emblems to come on an off with a little wiggle and then apply a rubber casket to the back of the emblem to keep it from raddling... It may be a totally bad idea. 8)

If I had a diamond hole saw for Ceramic tile that size, I wonder if that would cut it.

I really hate paying shipping for heavy parts but I nearly refuse to do it for used parts to your well pointed out concerns. I would only buy used if in person and could validate condition, which is not always easy to do.
I do not mind spending the money to do it once and right by getting new at the end of it all. It will have more value to be sold later if I stop using or pass on like the fella this came from.

I ran it up to fast, and now that I looked below the switch, I can see how that would work to block Fast. Key item is "would" cause it doesn't work. Between the flex of the plate you push and the some what looseness of the indicator dial, it seems to slow down but turn past anyway. Something to look at during overhaul.

The dial is stubborn, I am going to clean and oil those sheaves to get it to play nicer next.
Thank You much
Ron
1955 Mark 5 Greene "A"
Needs Un-Gilmer'd and some love.
Post Reply