Chisels

Create a review for a woodworking tool that you are familiar with (Shopsmith brand or Non-Shopsmith) or just post your opinion on a specific tool. Head to head comparisons welcome too.

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chapmanruss
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Re: Chisels

Post by chapmanruss »

Time for a little Lathe Chisel History.

The set you show in your last post is the standard set of 5 and versions of them have been sold since the beginning with the introduction of the Model 10E in 1947. There were five early versions (1947 through the 1960's) which included a 1” skew, ¾” gouge, ¼” gouge, ½” round nose & ½” parting tool and only came in sets. These were the same chisels with 4 different labels and 2 different handle styles. With the reintroduction of the Mark 5 by Shopsmith Inc. in 1973 there was a different set of the 5 standard Chisels. These include a 1” skew, 1” gouge, 3/8” gouge, ½” round nose & ½” parting tool and are longer than the earlier versions. Individually they were part numbers 555026, 555027, 555028, 555029 & 555030 which later changed to 515026, 515027, 515028, 515029 & 515030. These Chisels were the same except how they were labeled and a small handle difference on the last version. They included the Shopsmith Logo, name or the ShopMate name like yours. They continued until 2017 when Shopsmith replaced their Chisel set with an 8-piece set from Savannah Woodworking Tools & Accessories.

Now for the ones numbered 555031, 555032, 555033, 555034, 555035, 555036 & 555037. The 7-piece completer set included a ½” Skew (555031); ¼” Skew (555032); 5/8” gouge (555033); ¼” round nose (555034); ½” spear point (555035); ¼” square point (555036) and ½” square point (555037). These were sold for a time and had the same labeling as three of the standard 5-piece sets.

The above sets were not the only ones that have been sold for the Shopsmith tool. There was a Carbide Tipped Lathe Chisel set of 4 that originally came out during the Model 10 production. It included two round nose chisels (1/8” & ¼”) and two square nose chisels (1/8” & ¼”). There have been other sets like the mini chisels and the pen turning sets.

Below is a picture of the 10 different Lathe Chisels.

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Lathe Chisels 1 to 10.jpg
Lathe Chisels 1 to 10.jpg (228.47 KiB) Viewed 1338 times
.
So there you have Shopsmith Lathe Chisels 101.

EDITED to add the picture and correct numbers
Last edited by chapmanruss on Fri Jul 15, 2022 4:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Russ

Mark V completely upgraded to Mark 7
Mark V 520
All SPT's & 2 Power Stations
Model 10ER S/N R64000 first one I restored on bench w/ metal ends & retractable casters.
Has Speed Changer, 4E Jointer, Jig Saw with lamp, a complete set of original accessories & much more.
Model 10E's S/N's 1076 & 1077 oldest ones I have restored. Mark 2 S/N 85959 restored. Others to be restored.
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DaOldGuy
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Re: Chisels

Post by DaOldGuy »

Dang... that is good information indeed... I know the 5 I just ordered looked wider than the 7 set I got with it. More tools to figure out how they work.

101 much appreciated indeed.

I just got my new innereds for the Head Stock to convert the Gilmer. I wish I didn't see all the China Bearings, but I can jot down the numbers and order to replacements.

I was shocked how close the 2 Quill Bearing are to each other. the spline does have to have some stability in the quill.
1955 Mark 5 Greene "A"
Needs Un-Gilmer'd and some love.
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JPG
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Re: Chisels

Post by JPG »

A towel rack comes to mind. :D
╔═══╗
╟JPG ╢
╚═══╝

Goldie(Bought New SN 377425)/4" jointer/6" beltsander/12" planer/stripsander/bandsaw/powerstation /Scroll saw/Jig saw /Craftsman 10" ras/Craftsman 6" thicknessplaner/ Dayton10"tablesaw(restoredfromneighborstrashpile)/ Mark VII restoration in 'progress'/ 10
E[/size](SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange
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DaOldGuy
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Re: Chisels

Post by DaOldGuy »

chapmanruss wrote: Thu Jul 14, 2022 1:07 pm Time for a little Lathe Chisel History.
Below is a picture of the 10 different Lathe Chisels.
So there you have Shopsmith Lathe Chisels 101.

EDITED to add the picture and correct numbers
Nice collection that is obviously cared for well. I know I have a collection and depending on the choices I will likely find I am missing things and get preferences over time.

I have started taking things apart and removing rust and such. I use Navel Jelly to recover the rusted parts and it very much takes them down to bare. I have ordered some Super Blue to do "Cold Bluing" of parts so they don't rust again. Does anyone do this / know of any issues from it?
1955 Mark 5 Greene "A"
Needs Un-Gilmer'd and some love.
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chapmanruss
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Re: Chisels

Post by chapmanruss »

I haven't used any products for rust protection except Original Formula Johnson Paste Wax. I don't know if the "Super Blue" product to do "Cold Bluing" of parts will work any better than the black protective coating used on some bare metal Shopsmith parts since 1964. I have had rust on those parts that came with Shopsmith purchases. I believe the key is to protect them in the environment they are in plus cleaning and waxing.
Russ

Mark V completely upgraded to Mark 7
Mark V 520
All SPT's & 2 Power Stations
Model 10ER S/N R64000 first one I restored on bench w/ metal ends & retractable casters.
Has Speed Changer, 4E Jointer, Jig Saw with lamp, a complete set of original accessories & much more.
Model 10E's S/N's 1076 & 1077 oldest ones I have restored. Mark 2 S/N 85959 restored. Others to be restored.
RFGuy
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Re: Chisels

Post by RFGuy »

chapmanruss wrote: Sun Jul 17, 2022 11:44 am I don't know if the "Super Blue" product to do "Cold Bluing" of parts will work any better than the black protective coating used on some bare metal Shopsmith parts since 1964.
DaOldGuy wrote: Fri Jul 15, 2022 9:05 pm I have ordered some Super Blue to do "Cold Bluing" of parts so they don't rust again. Does anyone do this / know of any issues from it?
I asked about cold bluing some Shopsmith parts on the forum last year, but honestly didn't get much feedback on it. Surprised that this hadn't ever come up in previous restorations or repairs by anyone... My understanding based on research I did before is that cold bluing isn't as durable and certainly not as good as hot bluing when it comes to rust prevention. I had a couple of Shopsmith parts that were bought new and original, but after a few decades in this dry desert humidity where I live a couple had started rusting in areas that were naturally black oxide coated. Of course, I don't know for sure what process Shopsmith used to do the original black ox, so perhaps cold bluing is nearly as good as it? Presumption is that Shopsmith hot blued them originally. Bottomline is if you are going for a certain look, then cold bluing will produce it, but honestly I don't know how much rust prevention it is really offering in the end...it really is just a semi-controlled rusting process.

viewtopic.php?p=279897#p279897

P.S. I also thought about pursuing hot bluing to re-blue the parts in question, but I believe you need to heat treat the parts to a fairly high temperature and this can be problematic for re-treatment of hot bluing depending on the steel temper or any other steel treatment done previously.
📶RF Guy

Mark V 520 (Bought New '98) | 4" jointer | 6" beltsander | 12" planer | bandsaw | router table | speed reducer | univ. tool rest
Porter Cable 12" Compound Miter Saw | Rikon 8" Low Speed Bench Grinder w/CBN wheels | Jessem Clear-Cut TS™ Stock Guides
Festool (Emerald): DF 500 Q | RO 150 FEQ | OF 1400 EQ | TS 55 REQ | CT 26 E
DC3300 | Shopvac w/ClearVue CV06 Mini Cyclone | JDS AirTech 2000 | Sundstrom PAPR | Dylos DC1100 Pro particulate monitor
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DaOldGuy
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Re: Chisels

Post by DaOldGuy »

chapmanruss wrote: Sun Jul 17, 2022 11:44 am I haven't used any products for rust protection except Original Formula Johnson Paste Wax. I don't know if the "Super Blue" product to do "Cold Bluing" of parts will work any better than the black protective coating used on some bare metal Shopsmith parts since 1964. I have had rust on those parts that came with Shopsmith purchases. I believe the key is to protect them in the environment they are in plus cleaning and waxing.
I 100% agree on the environment, my area that the SS will be has HVAC. Bluing is what the do with guns and such and it is dark grey black. The SS parts you refer to may have also been treated in a similar process.
1955 Mark 5 Greene "A"
Needs Un-Gilmer'd and some love.
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DaOldGuy
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Re: Chisels

Post by DaOldGuy »

RFGuy wrote: Sun Jul 17, 2022 12:35 pm
I asked about cold bluing some Shopsmith parts on the forum last year, but honestly didn't get much feedback on it. Surprised that this hadn't ever come up in previous restorations or repairs by anyone... My understanding based on research I did before is that cold bluing isn't as durable and certainly not as good as hot bluing when it comes to rust prevention. I had a couple of Shopsmith parts that were bought new and original, but after a few decades in this dry desert humidity where I live a couple had started rusting in areas that were naturally black oxide coated. Of course, I don't know for sure what process Shopsmith used to do the original black ox, so perhaps cold bluing is nearly as good as it? Presumption is that Shopsmith hot blued them originally. Bottomline is if you are going for a certain look, then cold bluing will produce it, but honestly I don't know how much rust prevention it is really offering in the end...it really is just a semi-controlled rusting process.

viewtopic.php?p=279897#p279897

P.S. I also thought about pursuing hot bluing to re-blue the parts in question, but I believe you need to heat treat the parts to a fairly high temperature and this can be problematic for re-treatment of hot bluing depending on the steel temper or any other steel treatment done previously.
You are spot on... there are things that cannot be heated to those levels without damage. Cold is not near as durable, its basically an acid etching of sorts. Normally after bluing, a light coat of an oil or wax depending what it comes in contact with, and it will hold up very well to handling and such.

Head Stock on the Mark 5 A is completely apart. I need a V Belt and wish know the one Jacob Anderson Sold / Recommended. Mine has some noticeable low spots on the sides of the belt.

My Daughter is heading to Illinois next week, looks like the Menards out there may actually carry the Verda Green hammered Rust-oleum paint. I found one place on line so far and the 12 dollars shipping just sucks. It would be over 25 for a can.
1955 Mark 5 Greene "A"
Needs Un-Gilmer'd and some love.
RFGuy
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Posts: 2740
Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2018 8:05 am
Location: a suburb of PHX, AZ

Re: Chisels

Post by RFGuy »

DaOldGuy wrote: Sun Jul 17, 2022 2:48 pm You are spot on... there are things that cannot be heated to those levels without damage. Cold is not near as durable, its basically an acid etching of sorts. Normally after bluing, a light coat of an oil or wax depending what it comes in contact with, and it will hold up very well to handling and such.

Head Stock on the Mark 5 A is completely apart. I need a V Belt and wish know the one Jacob Anderson Sold / Recommended. Mine has some noticeable low spots on the sides of the belt.

My Daughter is heading to Illinois next week, looks like the Menards out there may actually carry the Verda Green hammered Rust-oleum paint. I found one place on line so far and the 12 dollars shipping just sucks. It would be over 25 for a can.
Thanks. Yeah, I found that I still had to majorly oil anything that I cold blued or it would rust instantly. I don't think that is true for hot bluing, but I am no expert in this area. Yeah, I agree with you on belts. I am running one currently that I got from Jacob Anderson and I liked it better than the ones from Shopsmith. I also wish I knew which brand & size that he purchased for his Shopsmith belts. IF anyone knows, please post it for us here.
📶RF Guy

Mark V 520 (Bought New '98) | 4" jointer | 6" beltsander | 12" planer | bandsaw | router table | speed reducer | univ. tool rest
Porter Cable 12" Compound Miter Saw | Rikon 8" Low Speed Bench Grinder w/CBN wheels | Jessem Clear-Cut TS™ Stock Guides
Festool (Emerald): DF 500 Q | RO 150 FEQ | OF 1400 EQ | TS 55 REQ | CT 26 E
DC3300 | Shopvac w/ClearVue CV06 Mini Cyclone | JDS AirTech 2000 | Sundstrom PAPR | Dylos DC1100 Pro particulate monitor
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DaOldGuy
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Re: Chisels

Post by DaOldGuy »

RFGuy wrote: Sun Jul 17, 2022 3:37 pm
Thanks. Yeah, I found that I still had to majorly oil anything that I cold blued or it would rust instantly. I don't think that is true for hot bluing, but I am no expert in this area. Yeah, I agree with you on belts. I am running one currently that I got from Jacob Anderson and I liked it better than the ones from Shopsmith. I also wish I knew which brand & size that he purchased for his Shopsmith belts. IF anyone knows, please post it for us here.
He gives the measurements of his belts on a video of 0.58 width and 0.35 height which is a seriously odd size belt. .50 and .625 are standard width.
When I was a kid, a local part store could look the sizes up and bingo, those days are gone. Parts Stores today can only operate on make, model and year. :D

I have seen the bluing done in 3 coats and hold up well with out oiling (I am told) and I would like to test that theory. :cool:
1955 Mark 5 Greene "A"
Needs Un-Gilmer'd and some love.
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