Bluing SS Parts

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DaOldGuy
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Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2022 3:59 pm

Bluing SS Parts

Post by DaOldGuy »

Hi Folks,
On another thread there was a short discussion around Bluing Shop Smith parts at are prone to surface rusting.
I got my Super Blue Kit the other day and I must say I am impressed with the product.
Today's first items
NEW Shop Smith 5/8 shaft to 1 inch 8 thread for adding the Chuck and Plate.
NEW 4 inch Mount Plate
Used Rusted Original SS Dead Center that had been rust reclaimed.
Acetone wash all parts
Scuff with Scotch bright and Acetone again.
Pour Bluing into small cup for foam brush (never dip in bottle)
Coat item wet with bluing and then rinse with water.
Pat and air dry.
Light scotch bright scuff to even out bluing and Acetone wipe
Coat again with Bluing and rinse with water.
Wipe and air dry.
I could have done another pass but they look good to me.

NOTE: Rust removal was completed with Loctite Navel Jelly
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1955 Mark 5 Greene "A"
Needs Un-Gilmer'd and some love.
RFGuy
Platinum Member
Posts: 2740
Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2018 8:05 am
Location: a suburb of PHX, AZ

Re: Bluing SS Parts

Post by RFGuy »

DaOldGuy wrote: Fri Jul 29, 2022 8:50 pm Hi Folks,
On another thread there was a short discussion around Bluing Shop Smith parts at are prone to surface rusting.
I got my Super Blue Kit the other day and I must say I am impressed with the product.
Today's first items
NEW Shop Smith 5/8 shaft to 1 inch 8 thread for adding the Chuck and Plate.
NEW 4 inch Mount Plate
Used Rusted Original SS Dead Center that had been rust reclaimed.
Acetone wash all parts
Scuff with Scotch bright and Acetone again.
Pour Bluing into small cup for foam brush (never dip in bottle)
Coat item wet with bluing and then rinse with water.
Pat and air dry.
Light scotch bright scuff to even out bluing and Acetone wipe
Coat again with Bluing and rinse with water.
Wipe and air dry.
I could have done another pass but they look good to me.

NOTE: Rust removal was completed with Loctite Navel Jelly
DaOldGuy,

Thanks. I appreciate your post. I really am surprised by the results you show here. I profess to be a newbie at this and had never done bluing before, but my results were far from this last year. From your description it sounds like you probably used the Birchwood Casey brand of bluing agents (based on the name you quote). I tried both Birchwood Casey and Brownells. I really preferred Brownells bluing kit. I have gone over the list of steps you show above and it looks to match the process that I used. Memory is a bit fuzzy, but I remember every time I would do the cold water rinse that it would start rusting like within a minute or two (and I live in a desert with low humidity). I mean I patted them dry right after the rinse but rust started within like a minute or two if I didn't either a) start a new bluing coat or b) coat with oil immediately.

The other difference is the finish quality. It looks like you only did 2 coats. Is that correct? I had to do about 10 coats with each brand product (very blotchy otherwise). You can see the results I achieved at the link below. The Birchwood Casey bluing results were very blotchy for me, but I got much more consistent results with the Brownells bluing kit. I never got a consistently uniform bluing out of either unfortunately. Not questioning your results, but rather trying to understand what the heck I did wrong with my bluing application. If you think of anything else to point out on your technique please share it.

viewtopic.php?p=280092#p280092

P.S. Note the camera exposure is VERY different depending on the background in the bluing pics at the above link. Kind of difficult to capture the blotchy finish fully. Sorry, not a camera pro...
📶RF Guy

Mark V 520 (Bought New '98) | 4" jointer | 6" beltsander | 12" planer | bandsaw | router table | speed reducer | univ. tool rest
Porter Cable 12" Compound Miter Saw | Rikon 8" Low Speed Bench Grinder w/CBN wheels | Jessem Clear-Cut TS™ Stock Guides
Festool (Emerald): DF 500 Q | RO 150 FEQ | OF 1400 EQ | TS 55 REQ | CT 26 E
DC3300 | Shopvac w/ClearVue CV06 Mini Cyclone | JDS AirTech 2000 | Sundstrom PAPR | Dylos DC1100 Pro particulate monitor
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DaOldGuy
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Re: Bluing SS Parts

Post by DaOldGuy »

You are correct, this is the Birchwood Super Blue product. I will tell you that Shop Smith Spinal part, the first time I messed with it started out very splotchy and I sorta freaked out. I was using the Q Tip that came with my kit. The video I had watch was using a Foam Paint brush and that made a big different. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGpYh-_llzE

If you think about the shape of the Q Tip and how the fluid settles to the down side, the application is sort of flawed. I have a large format vinyl printer/cutter that has 1/2 inch wide foam head cleaning brushes and those made a really big difference. Appling an even wet coat really made things more even.

Your comment about rust makes complete sense however to what I saw. On he Shop Smith spindle there is a tight crease all the way around the stop collar on both sides. I did not get that clean and or dry enough in the tight part of that section and the blue seemed to not want to coat. After the water bath I noticed that section did not coat and after drying started to show rust starting on first pass. I forced the scotch bright into that area very hard during the scuff. Next round seemed to pull it in without issue.

The fella in the video also mentions that certain steel types can be less likely to take bluing but it is very few. What I learned from these parts in the scuff and clean is key. Not touching the parts with skin as well. I didn't have gloves but always handled things with the acetone rag seemed to work.

You point about the back ground of the picture is spot on. The photos were on my desk which is dark grey. After I was done I placed them on the white table with all of the shop smith parts from the head stock rebuild and against the white, the bluing really POPS nice.

I have many more things to do, I will see if I can set up a video cam for doing the process.
1955 Mark 5 Greene "A"
Needs Un-Gilmer'd and some love.
RFGuy
Platinum Member
Posts: 2740
Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2018 8:05 am
Location: a suburb of PHX, AZ

Re: Bluing SS Parts

Post by RFGuy »

DaOldGuy,

Thanks. I haven't watched the YT video yet, but I will. Great feedback! Initial thoughts that I have are that the brush applicator is working much better than the Q-tips, as you indicated. I had high quality swab applicators (expensive q-tips -- like what I used to use in an electronics lab) and they just don't work well for this. Also tried cotton balls. I will have to try a new bluing project with a foam brush and see how it does. Another point you bring up, I think, is the cleaning of the products. I did my best to clean them well before application, but I know I am not as disciplined in this area as I would like. So my gut feeling is maybe you are on to something with that one so I will try to improve there as well. Also, I mostly used gloves, and/or hung the parts from a wire while doing the work. I lost interest in bluing after the poor results I saw last year, but I should revisit this with these two changes.

I don't know if you have any more bluing to do, but you may want to consider the Brownells brand bluing kit. I bought it after reading several positive online reviews from others attempting bluing. In my experience it seemed to work A LOT better than the Birchwood Casey product and I saw more than one person complain online about blotching with the Birchwood kit. I would be curious to know if you get even better results with the Brownells kit should you be willing to try it. Thanks again for the feedback!
📶RF Guy

Mark V 520 (Bought New '98) | 4" jointer | 6" beltsander | 12" planer | bandsaw | router table | speed reducer | univ. tool rest
Porter Cable 12" Compound Miter Saw | Rikon 8" Low Speed Bench Grinder w/CBN wheels | Jessem Clear-Cut TS™ Stock Guides
Festool (Emerald): DF 500 Q | RO 150 FEQ | OF 1400 EQ | TS 55 REQ | CT 26 E
DC3300 | Shopvac w/ClearVue CV06 Mini Cyclone | JDS AirTech 2000 | Sundstrom PAPR | Dylos DC1100 Pro particulate monitor
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DaOldGuy
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Re: Bluing SS Parts

Post by DaOldGuy »

I was not the best on cleaning and sort of learned I needed to improve my handling during it. I think this stuff is real picky and the video indicated it as well. Also, I mentioned cleaning and it likely is more about the "prep" then the cleaning product, bad choice of words on my part.
I have added a Brass Wire Brush (tooth brush style) planned for the next round to get in those tight creases.

I seen adds for Brownells and Birchwood has a Perma Blue also that I have not tried, not sure what the difference is.
1955 Mark 5 Greene "A"
Needs Un-Gilmer'd and some love.
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DaOldGuy
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Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2022 3:59 pm

Re: Bluing SS Parts

Post by DaOldGuy »

The Next contestants to be processed... I did the head for the Jointer, but forgot to get a picture of it. Since these photos they have been scuffed and took a soak in acetone. The Chuck I want to take apart, but I have to take it to town to put it in a Press.
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Last edited by DaOldGuy on Thu Aug 04, 2022 12:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
1955 Mark 5 Greene "A"
Needs Un-Gilmer'd and some love.
User avatar
DaOldGuy
Gold Member
Posts: 67
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2022 3:59 pm

Re: Bluing SS Parts

Post by DaOldGuy »

One thing the video mentioned was a polished finish takes bluing best and he is correct. I did my jointer blade and the really seemed to like the process.
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1955 Mark 5 Greene "A"
Needs Un-Gilmer'd and some love.
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