Shopsmith Forums

I decided the other night that my extension table needed aligned to my main table so I looked up Nick's sawdust session on the subject. BTW, I really love those sessions. I hope SS keeps them available to all. I'll buy the dvd's eventually, but not yet. But I digress... After aligning the tables I noticed that when the rip fence locks are adjusted to the main table and I then move the fence to the extension table the top lever (I have a 520) for the rear lock is too easy to lower and the fence does not lock snugly at the rear of the table. Has anyone else noticed this? Do I just need to shim the rear fence support out a bit? If so, why didn't SS provide any shims?

Bruce wrote:I decided the other night that my extension table needed aligned to my main table so I looked up Nick's sawdust session on the subject. BTW, I really love those sessions. I hope SS keeps them available to all. I'll buy the dvd's eventually, but not yet. But I digress... After aligning the tables I noticed that when the rip fence locks are adjusted to the main table and I then move the fence to the extension table the top lever (I have a 520) for the rear lock is too easy to lower and the fence does not lock snugly at the rear of the table. Has anyone else noticed this? Do I just need to shim the rear fence support out a bit? If so, why didn't SS provide any shims?

What you describe, Bruce, should not be.

If 1) all the parts are good and 2) the front and rear rails are properly installed and aligned and 3) the rip fence is properly installed, aligned and adjusted there should be no noticeable difference between main tables, floating tables and extension tables.

If I had this problem you describe, I would set up the main table, the extension table and the floating tables on a pair of 5' extension tubes (one great big table) and check the physical alignment of the rails. They should 1) line with a straight edge from end to end and 2) the table tops should be relatively flat (coplanar).

In this configuration, the rip fence should slide from end to end and lock the same at every position the entire length of the table(s).

Think about it this way. The tables are all tied together by the two 5' extension tubes. The rails are secured to those tubes. If the tubes are straight and parallel, the rails have to line up. Now the tables. The tables are attached to the rails. If the rails are straight and parallel (and they have to be because they are mounted on the straight and parallel tubes) then the tables have to line up. Then there is an independent adjustment of the tables with respect to the rails using the little aluminum alignment guide.

If you set up this way, anything that is out of alignment should stick out like a wart on the tip of your nose.

Hi,

Before you decided to do the alignment did the same problem exist? I'm trying to figure out how an alignment would change anything....

You also have floating table(s), are these fitting like the main table or like the extension table when you put the fence on them?

I haven't watched Nick's sawdust session so maybe this would all be clear to me if I did but.... I am use to doing alignments and I'm lost as I have not seen this happen on either of my 520's.

One thing I wanted to mention which might be in someway related... the latches on the front of the fence need to have some lube in order to work smooth. I use bee's wax (or toilet bowl ring material). Once they are moving smoothly you can tweak the clamping force... if they are stiff then it is very hard to make this adjustment.

If you do find that the extension table you have is for some reason to short then you can shim it out. Since most of us are not equipped to measure items of this size with any precession it will most likely have to trial and error of both fence fitting and the alignment for the tubes etc.

If you don't mind taking things apart you could take the rails off the main table and the extension table, take the legs off the extension table and set it on the main table and with a square align the fronts of the tables at one of the mounting locations on each one... then check the difference with the square at the other end... if they are different then use feeler gauge measure the difference.... I really can't say how well that will work but it is at least another way of trying.

Keep us posted as to what you find.

Ed

Bruce wrote:I decided the other night that my extension table needed aligned to my main table so I looked up Nick's sawdust session on the subject. BTW, I really love those sessions. I hope SS keeps them available to all. I'll buy the dvd's eventually, but not yet. But I digress... After aligning the tables I noticed that when the rip fence locks are adjusted to the main table and I then move the fence to the extension table the top lever (I have a 520) for the rear lock is too easy to lower and the fence does not lock snugly at the rear of the table. Has anyone else noticed this? Do I just need to shim the rear fence support out a bit? If so, why didn't SS provide any shims?

If you set up this way, anything that is out of alignment should stick out like a fart on the tip of your nose.

Hey Dusty,

That would be really stinky, wouldn't it?

curiousgeorge wrote:Hey Dusty,

That would be really stinky, wouldn't it?

Who said that?

Thanks, guys. Ed, to answer your question, the problem was there before I realigned the extension table. I also noticed that at the time I installed the 520 upgrade, I shimmed the rear guide on the main table, probably to correct an alignment problem. Since then, I have discovered Nick's alignment method, so I think I will remove those shims and try the alignment again and see how the fence works then. Thanks again for your input.

[quote="dusty"]What you describe, Bruce, should not be.

If 1) all the parts are good and 2) the front and rear rails are properly installed and aligned and 3) the rip fence is properly installed, aligned and adjusted there should be no noticeable difference between main tables, floating tables and extension tables.

If I had this problem you describe, I would set up the main table, the extension table and the floating tables on a pair of 5' extension tubes (one great big table) and check the physical alignment of the rails. They should 1) line with a straight edge from end to end and 2) the table tops should be relatively flat (coplanar).

In this configuration, the rip fence should slide from end to end and lock the same at every position the entire length of the table(s)...."
...................

So I'm not the only one...

My three aux tables measure differently from the Main, from the front of the front rail to the rear of the rear rail. I suspect this is the same condition Bruce was experiencing
The last time I tried, I could not have the Main, both Floaters and the Ext all mounted at the same time because once the front rail tube was installed and tightened the rear rail tube could not be inserted in all.

Now I see "little aluminum alignment guide" mentioned. Does this thang relate to the different sized tables?

keakap wrote:

dusty wrote:What you describe, Bruce, should not be.

If 1) all the parts are good and 2) the front and rear rails are properly installed and aligned and 3) the rip fence is properly installed, aligned and adjusted there should be no noticeable difference between main tables, floating tables and extension tables.

If I had this problem you describe, I would set up the main table, the extension table and the floating tables on a pair of 5' extension tubes (one great big table) and check the physical alignment of the rails. They should 1) line with a straight edge from end to end and 2) the table tops should be relatively flat (coplanar).

In this configuration, the rip fence should slide from end to end and lock the same at every position the entire length of the table(s)...."
...................

So I'm not the only one...

My three aux tables measure differently from the Main, from the front of the front rail to the rear of the rear rail. I suspect this is the same condition Bruce was experiencing
The last time I tried, I could not have the Main, both Floaters and the Ext all mounted at the same time because once the front rail tube was installed and tightened the rear rail tube could not be inserted in all.

Now I see "little aluminum alignment guide" mentioned. Does this thang relate to the different sized tables?

The aluminum alignment gauge is used to position the front and rear rails with respect to the plane of the table tops. That is - make them all sit at the same elevation above the rails.

See the photos in post #6 in this thread.

The problem that describe seems to imply that the distance from front to rear of the tables is inconsistent. That does not seem possible because of the way these tables are manufactured.

Given the problem you describe, I would install all my tables on a front 5' rail tube and secure the locks. Using a straight edge, confirm that all of the front rails are aligned with one another. They should all be at the same height and same orientation front to rear.

I would then expect to be able to slide the rear 5' rail tube into all of the rails. They too should align with one another. Any one that does not align I would loosen from the table. Don't remove it, just loosen it. Then with the 5' tube installed in the tables, secure the rails to the tubes. If shims are required to do this, use shims. There are appropriate shims in the help kit. However, I have never needed to use the shims. My shims are actually for 510 rail alignment.

[quote="dusty"][quote="keakap"]
The problem that describe seems to imply that the distance from front to rear of the tables is inconsistent. That does not seem possible because of the way these tables are manufactured. ..."

Around here we can do the impossible.
F'rinstance, my main table was recently replaced because it was not only not square but it was not flat either. Boy did I ever have fun trying to align the different tables!

To simplify the description of the mis-match between the three auxiliary tables, imagine setting them all on the floor, vertically, on rails, in a row and having a straight edge NOT make contact with all three 'top' rails. Or installing and tightening a tube in the Main front rails and not being able then to install the rear rail across the tables.

My concern is that I would like to upgrade to 520 rails but not if they are not going to fit on my tables properly.

Btw, thanks for the link to the photos. I'd never seen the new rails in detail and didn't even know if they were completely new or were extrusions that fit over the old rails. Now I'll ignore the rails and concentrate on measuring the tables. Even though I know they are not flat, if they are square I should be able to upgrade successfully, armed with the info you've passed on.

I don't know, for certain, how many different companies have participated in the manufacture of the Mark Vs.

The number is really not important. The question is - Do all of the tables manufactured by all of these companies meet the same dimensional specifications?

Could the problem that started this thread be that some extension tables are not the same size as others?

Bruce, did you resolve the problem with your extension tables?