Why not use all 4 way tubes for saw table stability ?

This is a forum for intermediate to advanced woodworkers. Show off your projects or share your ideas.

Moderator: admin

bainin
Gold Member
Posts: 477
Joined: Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:09 pm
Location: NC

Why not use all 4 way tubes for saw table stability ?

Post by bainin »

I was thinking about this whilst applying some paste wax to the tubes and looking at the sliding saw table system.
It seems you could design the sliding part to grab 4 way tubes, instead of just the top 2.

Probably wouldnt slide as nice, but it would be more rigid I think without engaging the extension tubes/table.

b
User avatar
JPG
Platinum Member
Posts: 33705
Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:42 pm
Location: Lexington, Ky (TAMECAT territory)

Re: Why not use all 4 way tubes for saw table stability ?

Post by JPG »

I don not think much additional stabilization would be achieved. The current carriage is quite stable when locked to the waytubes. Sluff above is where most instability is created.
╔═══╗
╟JPG ╢
╚═══╝

Goldie(Bought New SN 377425)/4" jointer/6" beltsander/12" planer/stripsander/bandsaw/powerstation /Scroll saw/Jig saw /Craftsman 10" ras/Craftsman 6" thicknessplaner/ Dayton10"tablesaw(restoredfromneighborstrashpile)/ Mark VII restoration in 'progress'/ 10
E[/size](SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange
User avatar
dusty
Platinum Member
Posts: 21055
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2006 6:52 am
Location: Tucson (Wildcat Country), Arizona

Re: Why not use all 4 way tubes for saw table stability ?

Post by dusty »

bainin wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 1:35 pm I was thinking about this whilst applying some paste wax to the tubes and looking at the sliding saw table system.
It seems you could design the sliding part to grab 4 way tubes, instead of just the top 2.

Probably wouldnt slide as nice, but it would be more rigid I think without engaging the extension tubes/table.

b
What you suggest could certainly be done BUT what sort of stability are you seeking to achieve that you don't already have using the system as designed?

Do you have stability issues when using the table saw?
"Making Sawdust Safely"
Dusty
Sent from my Dell XPS using Firefox.
bainin
Gold Member
Posts: 477
Joined: Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:09 pm
Location: NC

Re: Why not use all 4 way tubes for saw table stability ?

Post by bainin »

Dusty - not that is within my range of worries, though I've read here others discussing it.

One place that does come to mind-but wouldn't work, is in drill press mode. I can see some table
deflection on that sometimes.

I guess clamping to the lower tubes would inhibit switching to vertical as well :)


b
User avatar
jsburger
Platinum Member
Posts: 6111
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2006 4:06 pm
Location: Hooper, UT

Re: Why not use all 4 way tubes for saw table stability ?

Post by jsburger »

bainin wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 4:01 pm Dusty - not that is within my range of worries, though I've read here others discussing it.

One place that does come to mind-but wouldn't work, is in drill press mode. I can see some table
deflection on that sometimes.

I guess clamping to the lower tubes would inhibit switching to vertical as well :)


b
As JPG said, it is not the carriage it is the stuff above the carriage as in the table and the table posts. Table deflection in drill press mode is just that TABLE deflection. It has nothing to do with the carriage only being secured to two way tubes.
John & Mary Burger
Eagle's Lair Woodshop
Hooper, UT
User avatar
BuckeyeDennis
Platinum Member
Posts: 3527
Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:03 pm
Location: Central Ohio

Re: Why not use all 4 way tubes for saw table stability ?

Post by BuckeyeDennis »

On my 520, I find that tying the main table to the auxilary table with extension tubes does a fine job of stabilizing the table for sawing.

That said, I’ve often thought that tying the way tubes to the bench tubes could help a lot to increase stiffness and reduce resonances when turning a large bowl. I’ve only gone so far as wrapping a ratchet strap around all four tubes when turning. That does help, but I refrain from cinching down too tightly, for fear of permanently bending the tubes. I suspect that an X-brace that ties all four tubes together solidly would work better. Something like a piece of plywood with tube-sized notches at all four corners, with a ratched strap then cinched down really tightly around the whole thing, Or better yet, including a shelf/cubby in the X-brace that could be loaded up with sandbags.

What would really solve the problem is a big heavy cast-iron lathe. But that’s just not terribly practical for my smallish basement workshop.
User avatar
dusty
Platinum Member
Posts: 21055
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2006 6:52 am
Location: Tucson (Wildcat Country), Arizona

Re: Why not use all 4 way tubes for saw table stability ?

Post by dusty »

JPG wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 2:28 pm I don not think much additional stabilization would be achieved. The current carriage is quite stable when locked to the waytubes. Sluff above is where most instability is created.
Is this comment with regard to saw mode or drill press mode?

In saw mode -- what stuff is above?
"Making Sawdust Safely"
Dusty
Sent from my Dell XPS using Firefox.
User avatar
JPG
Platinum Member
Posts: 33705
Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:42 pm
Location: Lexington, Ky (TAMECAT territory)

Re: Why not use all 4 way tubes for saw table stability ?

Post by JPG »

1) Drill press mode is impossible(bench tubes and way tubes are at a near right angle to each other).

2) The "stuff" is the table posts, the trunion, the table. Held together by joints that can be a bit sloppy as well as can be deflected under loading. If it were not so, we would not be having this bantering.
╔═══╗
╟JPG ╢
╚═══╝

Goldie(Bought New SN 377425)/4" jointer/6" beltsander/12" planer/stripsander/bandsaw/powerstation /Scroll saw/Jig saw /Craftsman 10" ras/Craftsman 6" thicknessplaner/ Dayton10"tablesaw(restoredfromneighborstrashpile)/ Mark VII restoration in 'progress'/ 10
E[/size](SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange
User avatar
dusty
Platinum Member
Posts: 21055
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2006 6:52 am
Location: Tucson (Wildcat Country), Arizona

Re: Why not use all 4 way tubes for saw table stability ?

Post by dusty »

JPG wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 9:20 am 1) Drill press mode is impossible(bench tubes and way tubes are at a near right angle to each other).

2) The "stuff" is the table posts, the trunion, the table. Held together by joints that can be a bit sloppy as well as can be deflected under loading. If it were not so, we would not be having this bantering.
Sorry you see this as bantering. I was just trying to understand your comment "stuff above"..."stuff above what".
"Making Sawdust Safely"
Dusty
Sent from my Dell XPS using Firefox.
DLB
Platinum Member
Posts: 1622
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:24 am
Location: Joshua Texas

Re: Why not use all 4 way tubes for saw table stability ?

Post by DLB »

dusty wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 10:32 am Sorry you see this as bantering. I was just trying to understand your comment "stuff above"..."stuff above what".
Appears to refer to stuff above the carriage. But IMO the carriage can contribute. Maybe only if the carriage is bad? I noticed quite a while back that there are two (or more) versions of the 510 and on carriage. One has a slit that appears to allow the table tube locks to get a better grip on the table tubes, the other does not. I have not tried to 'prove' one is better, it just seems intuitively that the slit is better.

I have the most problem with table deflection when applying a lateral force, but I don't vertical DP often. The conical disc seems the worst but probably isn't. It's just more trouble to add support because the table has that slight angle. Not a problem, just takes a little longer to set up.

- David
Post Reply