Long Cross Cut / Squaring Question

This is a forum for intermediate to advanced woodworkers. Show off your projects or share your ideas.

Moderators: HopefulSSer, admin

RFGuy
Platinum Member
Posts: 2743
Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2018 8:05 am
Location: a suburb of PHX, AZ

Re: Long Cross Cut / Squaring Question

Post by RFGuy »

KCollins wrote: Fri Oct 21, 2022 12:02 pm To answer you first question RF Guy - Yes... your assumptions are correct. That is the cut I'm attempting. Can I ask what you used to sketch that up? I like it. Is it SketchUp?

For me I'm worried about several things. First... getting an accurate cut... A square cut... I have cut plywood on my old craftsman table saw a thousand times but not on a SS... So lack of experience with a new table saw is a little intimidating. I'm confident with other table saws just not the smaller SS table...Which I'm sure will come with time. Second... is the only material I have cut this size has been plywood. NOT hardwood. I do have a new thin kerf SS cross cutting blade... So I'm hoping that would help. Third... I'm cutting walnut... Around here it's $16.00 a board foot... I DO NOT WANT TO SCREW THIS PIECE UP... I get one chance and that's it.

So I have few things running through my head at the moment. If it was plywood on a larger table saw I would have no issue cutting this piece. But Walnut on a smaller table... Intimidating.
Kevin,

Thanks. No, I am old school...it was drawn in Visio which I learned on the job years ago and still have a copy. I have played around a bit with SketchUp and Fusion 360...the latter is my preference. I just don't seem to get enough time to put into them or into my shop as I would like (life keeps interrupting). :(

We all have a different comfort level with shop tools, i.e. some are more confident than others at certain tasks. Some are overconfident. ;) Having been young and uninformed in my earlier years, I experienced kickback a couple of times in the past. Not fun. The main table of the Mark V does have some twisting motion to it, but it gets A LOT more stable when connector tubes are used to anchor it to the auxiliary table. Just this alone concerns me for myself making cuts on large items on the Mark V main table, i.e. any twist or lateral play could induce a kickback. This gets amplified with a bigger (heavier) workpiece such as plywood or this panel in this case. In comparison, a nice cabinet tablesaw is rock solid and doesn't move at all, so I might be more tempted to try this cut on a good cabinet tablesaw with a big enough wing table. I have cut full sheets of plywood on my Dad's Crafstman tablesaw many years ago and needed assistance to wrangle it by myself. I have done the same on my Mark V a few times. No more. I have the luxury of owning a tracksaw and I would never go back. It is so much safer and night and day difference in breaking down sheet goods. In fact, I only use my Mark V in tablesaw mode for rip cuts only now, and the occasional small crosscut (prefer my miter saw usually). I know there are others on the forum who will do full sheet plywood cuts on their Mark V and I don't judge them for it. To each their own. I just prefer to keep my own risk lower. The choice is yours, but I know you spent a lot of money and time on that panel so I was just trying to give you advice from my perspective. Also, that panel likely weighs quite a bit and that is A LOT of mass to come back at you should a kickback occur (same thing with a 3/4" sheet of plywood).

P.S. If you do it on the Mark V, thin kerf is good, but also make sure your belts are tight enough. More than once cutting 8/4 cherry I have had my sawblade slow mid-cut because my belts needed to be re-tightened...and that was with a very sharp and expensive sawblade.

P.P.S. Not to confuse you even more, but if truly it is only 1/16" or less difference on the staggered ends, have you considered aggressive sanding? The trick is doing it and NOT rounding over the top/bottom edges of the boards. Assuming all of your end cuts are perfectly square AND you don't need a perfect squared end relative to the sides, e.g. depending on how this panel is going to be used in a piece of furniture...I have corrected this kind of problem at least once in the past with an aggressive sander. I have a Festool Rotex which when in Rotex mode is as aggressive as a belt sander when you need it. A belt sander could also work. Sanding is more trouble than squaring it with a saw cut, but it sounds like you are so close that maybe this could be an option for you...at least on one end since you want 51" final dimension, correct? I guess you would still need to cut the other end to finished length.
Last edited by RFGuy on Fri Oct 21, 2022 2:04 pm, edited 5 times in total.
📶RF Guy

Mark V 520 (Bought New '98) | 4" jointer | 6" beltsander | 12" planer | bandsaw | router table | speed reducer | univ. tool rest
Porter Cable 12" Compound Miter Saw | Rikon 8" Low Speed Bench Grinder w/CBN wheels | Jessem Clear-Cut TS™ Stock Guides
Festool (Emerald): DF 500 Q | RO 150 FEQ | OF 1400 EQ | TS 55 REQ | CT 26 E
DC3300 | Shopvac w/ClearVue CV06 Mini Cyclone | JDS AirTech 2000 | Sundstrom PAPR | Dylos DC1100 Pro particulate monitor
bainin
Platinum Member
Posts: 544
Joined: Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:09 pm
Location: NC

Re: Long Cross Cut / Squaring Question

Post by bainin »

I still say the video I posted deserves a look.

By bolting the guide to the bottom of the board you shorten the distance between blade and "faux" fence, much reducing the possibility of kickback as the lever arm is much shorter-which seems to be what much of this discussion is concerned with.

b
RFGuy
Platinum Member
Posts: 2743
Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2018 8:05 am
Location: a suburb of PHX, AZ

Re: Long Cross Cut / Squaring Question

Post by RFGuy »

bainin wrote: Fri Oct 21, 2022 12:50 pm I still say the video I posted deserves a look.

By bolting the guide to the bottom of the board you shorten the distance between blade and "faux" fence, much reducing the possibility of kickback as the lever arm is much shorter-which seems to be what much of this discussion is concerned with.

b
JMO...It looks great on a Sawstop. Knowing how much wiggle there is in my main table of my Mark V, that cut would scare the crap out of me. Also what are you going to do about the two bumpouts on the left side of the main table of a 510/520 Mark V? Won't the guide board he uses in the video have trouble referencing the left side of a Mark V table?
📶RF Guy

Mark V 520 (Bought New '98) | 4" jointer | 6" beltsander | 12" planer | bandsaw | router table | speed reducer | univ. tool rest
Porter Cable 12" Compound Miter Saw | Rikon 8" Low Speed Bench Grinder w/CBN wheels | Jessem Clear-Cut TS™ Stock Guides
Festool (Emerald): DF 500 Q | RO 150 FEQ | OF 1400 EQ | TS 55 REQ | CT 26 E
DC3300 | Shopvac w/ClearVue CV06 Mini Cyclone | JDS AirTech 2000 | Sundstrom PAPR | Dylos DC1100 Pro particulate monitor
bainin
Platinum Member
Posts: 544
Joined: Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:09 pm
Location: NC

Re: Long Cross Cut / Squaring Question

Post by bainin »

Hmm...I'll have to look on my table to see if there are obstructions there !
RFGuy
Platinum Member
Posts: 2743
Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2018 8:05 am
Location: a suburb of PHX, AZ

Re: Long Cross Cut / Squaring Question

Post by RFGuy »

bainin wrote: Fri Oct 21, 2022 1:43 pm Hmm...I'll have to look on my table to see if there are obstructions there !
I guess you could use the aux table instead to reference against, but the main table has those little bumpouts front and back on both the left and right sides (at least for the 510/520 main table).
📶RF Guy

Mark V 520 (Bought New '98) | 4" jointer | 6" beltsander | 12" planer | bandsaw | router table | speed reducer | univ. tool rest
Porter Cable 12" Compound Miter Saw | Rikon 8" Low Speed Bench Grinder w/CBN wheels | Jessem Clear-Cut TS™ Stock Guides
Festool (Emerald): DF 500 Q | RO 150 FEQ | OF 1400 EQ | TS 55 REQ | CT 26 E
DC3300 | Shopvac w/ClearVue CV06 Mini Cyclone | JDS AirTech 2000 | Sundstrom PAPR | Dylos DC1100 Pro particulate monitor
KCollins
Gold Member
Posts: 178
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:50 pm

Re: Long Cross Cut / Squaring Question

Post by KCollins »

I did find this vid... That looks like he was in control and the cut was a safe cut. Also looks like he's on a 510 floating table. I might look into this a little closer.

Never posted a link before... I'll try both these methods and see which one works.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLqtDnqKFjY[/youtube]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLqtDnqKFjY
Kevin Collins

1x Mark 7 - 520
2x Mark 5 - 510
1x 1956 Mark 5 - 500 in need of restoration
User avatar
jsburger
Platinum Member
Posts: 6406
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2006 4:06 pm
Location: Hooper, UT

Re: Long Cross Cut / Squaring Question

Post by jsburger »

RFGuy wrote: Fri Oct 21, 2022 12:53 pm
bainin wrote: Fri Oct 21, 2022 12:50 pm I still say the video I posted deserves a look.

By bolting the guide to the bottom of the board you shorten the distance between blade and "faux" fence, much reducing the possibility of kickback as the lever arm is much shorter-which seems to be what much of this discussion is concerned with.

b
JMO...It looks great on a Sawstop. Knowing how much wiggle there is in my main table of my Mark V, that cut would scare the crap out of me. Also what are you going to do about the two bumpouts on the left side of the main table of a 510/520 Mark V? Won't the guide board he uses in the video have trouble referencing the left side of a Mark V table?
Some 510/520 tables have the bumps and some don't. I have three tables here. Two have the smooth top between the miter tracks and they have the bumps. The third one has the grooves between the miter tracks and has no bumps. For the tables with the bumps just use short connector tubes and a floating table attached to the main table.

FWIW we had a discussion here about those bumps a few years ago. Not sure what the thread subject was.
John & Mary Burger
Eagle's Lair Woodshop
Hooper, UT
DLB
Platinum Member
Posts: 2008
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:24 am
Location: Joshua Texas

Re: Long Cross Cut / Squaring Question

Post by DLB »

bainin wrote: Fri Oct 21, 2022 1:43 pm Hmm...I'll have to look on my table to see if there are obstructions there !
The casting features RFGuy referred to on the main are unique to the black edged tables. I noticed in other pictures you have posted you have the earlier gray table system.

- David
User avatar
jsburger
Platinum Member
Posts: 6406
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2006 4:06 pm
Location: Hooper, UT

Re: Long Cross Cut / Squaring Question

Post by jsburger »

DLB wrote: Fri Oct 21, 2022 2:35 pm
bainin wrote: Fri Oct 21, 2022 1:43 pm Hmm...I'll have to look on my table to see if there are obstructions there !
The casting features RFGuy referred to on the main are unique to the black edged tables. I noticed in other pictures you have posted you have the earlier gray table system.

- David
Not true, at least here. See my post above. The table I have with no bumps is black on the edges.
John & Mary Burger
Eagle's Lair Woodshop
Hooper, UT
DLB
Platinum Member
Posts: 2008
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:24 am
Location: Joshua Texas

Re: Long Cross Cut / Squaring Question

Post by DLB »

jsburger wrote: Fri Oct 21, 2022 2:59 pm Not true, at least here. See my post above. The table I have with no bumps is black on the edges.
Interesting, sorry. I've seen several sets and that has been the pattern, along with black ones having the smooth area between miter tracks. It figures there'd be exceptions though. Thanks for correcting me. :o

- David
Post Reply