Which older Shopsmith as a lathe?

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RexLumber
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Which older Shopsmith as a lathe?

Post by RexLumber »

Hello,

I have been reading this forum off and on for the last week, as I think I am in the market for an old Shopsmith. My intended uses for the machine are lathe, drill press, sander, and horizontal borer. My small shop already has a table saw, band saw, jointer, planer, drill press and scroll saw. I am thinking I can sell my drill press to help make room for the shopsmith.

I have noticed several 10ER and Model 500 (greenies and goldies) units for sale in my area. I am having trouble finding information regarding each model's lathe capabilities. I think I read somewhere that the model 500 has approximately a 16" swing. I can't seem to find swing for the 10ER, nor how long of a work piece either machine can handle in lathe mode.

I've also seen some opinions that the 10ER is more stable as a lathe, while the model 500 has the advantage of a larger motor (particularly if one gets a later enough goldie or newer).

I don't see using the table saw functionality, though I have a friend with a 510 and a stand alone cabinet table saw who says he uses the table saw on his 510 more often than the stand alone machine, so I guess I shouldn't rule that possibility out.

Can you point me to where I can find the lathe specs for each? And while I am sure they are both quite usable machines, is there any particular reason why I should choose one over the other given my intended uses?
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edflorence
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Re: Which older Shopsmith as a lathe?

Post by edflorence »

Hi Rex;

Interesting question, as I have been thinking myself of getting a third Shopsmith, which I would dedicate to use only as a lathe. Assuming my plans to build a larger shop space actually come to pass. In that case, I will be looking for a 500, for a couple of reasons. First, the upgrades to the 500 seem to be mostly about improvements to the table saw function, and don't affect the machine when used as a lathe. Others on the forum can correct me if this is not the case. Second, the improved tool rest might not work on the 10, and it is such an improvement to the lathe that it really is a "must have" if you intend to do more than a few turnings. Finally, as you point out, you can get a 500 with the larger horse and an eight motor. By adding the speed reducer into the mix you can get the rotations down around 100 rpm or even less, which is useful for large pieces, and with the 500 it is a simple matter to take a piece up to much higher rpms for sanding. And even though the 500 does not have a reversing motor, it does have an outboard drive hub. It is not hard to rig up a tool rest for the left end, and then you can take bowls, still on the faceplate or in the chuck, and finish turning them on the outboard drive hub, which reverses the grain. I think you would be happy with the 500 as a lathe. Ideally I would like a 500 mounted on a box of sand, at just the right height for me, and never move it.
Ed
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RexLumber
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Re: Which older Shopsmith as a lathe?

Post by RexLumber »

Hi Ed,

Thanks for the response. Your points are noted, especially about the tool rest improvement. How was the tool rest improved?

I found that Shopsmith says that the Mark V lathe has a 16-1/2" swing and a 34" distance between centers. If I understand things correctly, that applies to all 500, 510, and 520 machines. Is this correct?

Does anyone know where can I find the 10ER lathe specs? Doesn't the 10ER have a shorter bed than the 500? I assume that has an impact on the distance between centers.

I did see that the Shopsmith lathe duplicator, which does not seem be available to buy new at this time, does not work with the 10ER.

It's looking like the 500 is the way to go for me.
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Re: Which older Shopsmith as a lathe?

Post by RFGuy »

RexLumber wrote: Fri Feb 10, 2023 8:54 am Hi Ed,

Thanks for the response. Your points are noted, especially about the tool rest improvement. How was the tool rest improved?

Rex,

Welcome to the forum! I believe Ed is referring to the Shopsmith Universal Tool Rest (UTR). I am still a woodturning newbie having only gotten into it a few years ago, but have been woodworking for decades. IMHO the UTR is well worth it and is a substantial improvement over the standard tool rest (see link below). It has unfortunately gone up quite a bit in price the last year or so. Mine was around $250 new from Shopsmith, but it is now $319. I agree with Ed's comments above. The one/only disadvantage that I can think of for you in woodturning using a 500 is there is no reverse. So, if you do a lot of woodturning and want to go in reverse for sanding, e.g. to finish a bowl after turning, then you can't easily do this with a 500. There is the PowerPro upgrade from Shopsmith which goes in reverse, but it is EXPENSIVE. Honestly for primarily woodturning...if you want reverse (for sanding) you would be better off going with another brand lathe. Not trying to talk you out of Shopsmith, but just give you some things to think about. Good luck!

https://www.shopsmith.com/ownersite/cat ... olrest.htm
UTR.jpg
UTR.jpg (87.55 KiB) Viewed 1701 times
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chapmanruss
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Re: Which older Shopsmith as a lathe?

Post by chapmanruss »

The Shopsmith Model 10E & 10ER has a lathe capacity of 33" with a 15" swing as listed in its brochure. I can do turnings up to 13" in diameter and spindles up to 33" long or longer if I made an extension. Some creative owners have made extensions for their Shopsmith which include both Model 10's and Mark series tools. The Model 10's are a heavy tool weighing in at around 200 pounds depending on when it was made. Changes to parts during production changed the total weight somewhat.

A Mark V (any model) with the Shopsmith Universal Tool Rest will add additional total weight to the Shopsmith and adds stability. There is a difference between the models of the Mark V when it comes to the Lathe function. It is the Table System that makes the difference between the models and the Carriage is part of that difference. The Mark 5/V with the original Table System, aka 500 has a different Carriage and Lathe Tool Rest Assembly than the other models of the Mark V. The Universal Lathe Tool Rest will work on either Carriage. The Lathe Duplicator will work on either Carriage but it is not designed to work on the Model 10E & 10ER or Mark 2.

It has been suggested if you wanted to turn a bowl in reverse for sanding you could attach it to the left side of the Headstock on the upper Auxiliary shaft. Putting the Tailstock on the left end of the Mark V you could reverse the rotation of a spindle for sanding also if it is not too long. Due to the Carriage the distance between the Headstock and the Tailstock on the left end is shorter than the listed capacity of 34" for Lathe Turning.

If you have been looking at the catalog for the Mark 4 do know that the spindle capacity is shorter than the listed length of 34" which is the length for the other Mark models. The Mark 4 has shorter Bench and Way Tubes than the Mark V models and Mark 7. The online catalog has that length listed incorrectly although the Mark 4 has the same diameter capacity as other Mark series models.
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jsburger
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Re: Which older Shopsmith as a lathe?

Post by jsburger »

The 10ER way tubes are the same length at the MK series Shopsmith's. The 10ER head stock is (I believe) narrower than the MK head stocks so the turning length should be the same or slightly longer. I would have to measure mine (I have both) to be sure. The 10ER is heavier than the MK V so that is a plus. As for the UTR, it just clamps to the MK V carriage so I see no reason it would not clamp to the 10ER carriage. The carriage just needs to be flat on top which the 10ER is.

As far as SS saying things won't work on the 10ER, I believe that is a lawyer/liability thing. While some things actually physically don't fit others do but SS says they don't because they don't support the 10ER.
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JPG
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Re: Which older Shopsmith as a lathe?

Post by JPG »

"As far as SS saying things won't work on the 10ER, I believe that is a lawyer/liability thing. While some things actually physically don't fit others do but SS says they don't because they don't support the 10ER."

Ditto Mark VII.
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edflorence
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Re: Which older Shopsmith as a lathe?

Post by edflorence »

RFGuy wrote: Fri Feb 10, 2023 9:06 am
RexLumber wrote: Fri Feb 10, 2023 8:54 am Hi Ed,

Thanks for the response. Your points are noted, especially about the tool rest improvement. How was the tool rest improved?

Rex,

Welcome to the forum! I believe Ed is referring to the Shopsmith Universal Tool Rest (UTR).
Exactly right. Thanks for posting the picture...
Ed
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edflorence
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Re: Which older Shopsmith as a lathe?

Post by edflorence »

chapmanruss wrote: Fri Feb 10, 2023 12:52 pm
It has been suggested if you wanted to turn a bowl in reverse for sanding you could attach it to the left side of the Headstock on the upper Auxiliary shaft. Putting the Tailstock on the left end of the Mark V you could reverse the rotation of a spindle for sanding also if it is not too long.
That is a good idea...I will have to remember it! You can also simply swap the spindle end for end on the right side of the headstock, which would not decrease the available length . However, this method is tricky as far as maintaining the spindle's centerline. If I were to try it, I would prepare both ends of the stock for the drive center before I started to turn. That is, saw diagonals both directions on both ends, and then use an awl to dimple the center point on both ends.
Ed
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Mark 5 of various vintages, Mini with reversing motor, bs, dc3300, jointer, increaser, decreaser
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JPG
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Re: Which older Shopsmith as a lathe?

Post by JPG »

Hmmmm! We jumped from bowls on the rear end to spindles on the rear end.

What next? :D


Never mind - just dawned - reverse spindle on the front end. DUH!!! :eek:

Need to read sl ow er.
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╟JPG ╢
╚═══╝

Goldie(Bought New SN 377425)/4" jointer/6" beltsander/12" planer/stripsander/bandsaw/powerstation /Scroll saw/Jig saw /Craftsman 10" ras/Craftsman 6" thicknessplaner/ Dayton10"tablesaw(restoredfromneighborstrashpile)/ Mark VII restoration in 'progress'/ 10
E[/size](SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange
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