Which older Shopsmith as a lathe?

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RexLumber
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Re: Which older Shopsmith as a lathe?

Post by RexLumber »

Hey RFGuy,

I don't see any need for you or anyone else to apologize for any of the information provided to me in this thread. I came here for information and opinions about which of the older Shopsmith models was "better" for use as a lathe. I encourage any and all observations which point out flaws in my plan. Naturally all of that is going to be subjective.

I did entertain buying a dedicated lathe, and have been watching for one on CL. I haven't seen one at a price point that will work for me, and I have been watching for months. But I have seen plenty of Shopsmiths. And then there is the added complication of space limitations. Like I said, I have a drill press (an old Buffalo Forge cast iron floor model beast), and for as often as I use it, a Shopsmith seems like it could fill in when I need that capability. And I don't have a dedicated sander, and I want that capability. The horizontal borer is an added bonus.

I merely mention making the column sections as a possibility in the future. Making balusters in quantity would, I guess, be "semi-production" work, though I'm not planning to take it up professionally.

What I see as a problem is getting a duplicator. The Shopsmith duplicator is not available on the Shopsmith website. That means finding one on the used market, and the duplicators do not seem to be anywhere near as commonplace as Model 10er and Mark 5 machines. Is it straightforward to adapt other duplicators to the Shopsmith? Are there any makes that are easier to use than others?

Incidentally, I found this place which apparently teaches woodturning on a variety of machines, including Shopsmiths: Time To Fiddle

And look at this page!
Last edited by RexLumber on Sat Feb 11, 2023 12:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.
roy_okc
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Re: Which older Shopsmith as a lathe?

Post by roy_okc »

RexLumber wrote: Sat Feb 11, 2023 10:15 am To be clear, I am talking about repair sections for columns, not full columns. Maybe 12-16" long by 6" diameter. If a blank for a 14" diameter bowl could be turned on a Shopsmith (as I've read on this forum), why not what I describe?

Regardless, my immediate pursuit is balusters...
RexLumber,

I think a Shopsmith would be fine for these purposes. I do recommend you start with smaller stock for learning on and move up in size as you figure out how to turn in general and then what you need to do to securely hold the larger pieces. Also, start out turning as slow as possible especially as you get to the larger diameter stock and stand well out of the way, as far left as you can get, with a hand on the switch when you first power up a new piece.

If you're in or near a larger metro area, you might search out a local woodturning group for learning/mentorship. The one here in OKC has an awesome membership with a fantastic wealth of knowledge.

I agree with RFGuy's comments if the material were very long and heavy.
Roy

Mark V/510, Mark V/500 with parts for 510 upgrade, bandsaw, jointer, belt sander, DC3300 w/1 micron bag
Sawstop 3HP 36" PCS w/router table insert
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Way too much other stuff and not enough space :rolleyes:
RFGuy
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Re: Which older Shopsmith as a lathe?

Post by RFGuy »

RexLumber wrote: Sat Feb 11, 2023 12:07 pm I merely mention making the column sections as a possibility in the future. Making balusters in quantity would, I guess, be "semi-production" work, though I'm not planning to take it up professionally.

What I see as a problem is getting a duplicator. The Shopsmith duplicator is not available on the Shopsmith website. That means finding one on the used market, and the duplicators do not seem to be anywhere near as commonplace as Model 10er and Mark 5 machines. Is it straightforward to adapt other duplicators to the Shopsmith? Are there any makes that are easier to use than others?
Rex,

Are we talking 10 balusters or 100? It makes a difference. How intricate? Professional woodturners can batch out large quantities of these all by eye and muscle memory, if the design is fairly simple, e.g. tapered design or limited coves, etc. The more complicated the design the more likely you need a lathe duplicator. Being new to it, you could practice a bit on a simple design and knock out 10 balusters in a reasonable time after likely throwing away several practice ones while starting out. Making a story stick and/or template to compare against and using calipers, it is doable without a duplicator. Being a newbie and knocking out 100 balusters is asking too much IMHO. Like I said, a pro can knock these out in an afternoon, often by eye alone. Yeah, I forgot that Shopsmith put the lathe duplicator on the permanent disabled list, so I don't know if it is coming back or not. They do this unfortunately with certain products unfortunately. I don't have any direct experience with duplicators myself so I can't really give you any more advice on them, but I suggested it because it would be a shortcut for knocking out a large numbers of balusters and easy for a person new to turning like yourself to get going quickly. IF it is 100+ balusters then this again gets back to the fatigue issue related to the low height problem of using a Shopsmith as a lathe for semi-production work. When I use mine as a lathe, it is typically for 4-6 hours at a stretch. Even using a stool, being 6'0" tall I have aching shoulders and neck afterwards so I never do woodturning on back-to-back days for example. Just my experience though.

Also, Roy has all good advice as well and I wanted to suggest the AAW to you. They have chapters in many cities and you can search on their website below. I was a member and used some of their online resources in the past, but it was just too overwhelming for me so I didn't maintain my membership. They have A LOT of info on their website for members to guide woodturners. Their chapters have local members you can talk to and get advice and share techniques, etc. I never got around to going to my local chapter here, but I should have...just too much other stuff going on for me at the time. I plan on getting back to it and checking them out again.

https://www.woodturner.org/Woodturner/W ... epage.aspx
📶RF Guy

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BuckeyeDennis
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Re: Which older Shopsmith as a lathe?

Post by BuckeyeDennis »

I've turned several large bowls on my Mark V, and these require a speed reducer. With which you can do beautiful work. But you still have to take very light cuts, or else the whole machine will start resonating.

Bowl blank.JPG
Bowl blank.JPG (136.68 KiB) Viewed 1030 times
UpsideDown.JPG
UpsideDown.JPG (84.56 KiB) Viewed 1030 times
Trued up.JPG
Trued up.JPG (215.98 KiB) Viewed 1030 times
Interior2.JPG
Interior2.JPG (78.19 KiB) Viewed 1030 times
Bowl in extenders 2.JPG
Bowl in extenders 2.JPG (156.58 KiB) Viewed 1030 times
Bottom HD.JPG
Bottom HD.JPG (172.22 KiB) Viewed 1030 times

I hope to have a big cast iron lathe before turning a bowl for daughter #2. But if not, the Shopsmith will still do a fine job, albeit slowly.

As for the height/posture issue, I'm 6'3", so the SS is way to low for me in lathe mode. If I'm standing up, that is. But sitting on a stool, it's about right.
RFGuy
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Re: Which older Shopsmith as a lathe?

Post by RFGuy »

Rex,

As you can see Dennis has done some beautiful work with his Mark V, but as pointed out it is slow and a mass that size does create challenges for operating in lathe mode on Shopsmith equipment. Not that it can't be done, but these are special projects, i.e. low quantity typically and they take time. The size you gave for column repair should be doable and likely much more controllable than the large bowls that Dennis did, but still need care while turning. The balusters will be easier for sure than bowl turning, but the challenge is in replicating one design. If we could though, maybe it is best to take a step back and analyze the project to see what parts you want/need to do? If you want to take all of it on to learn and grow as a woodworker that is great. :) Sometimes woodworking projects rather fill a need and it is more of the "let's get this done" category. IF it is the latter, I have some advice to share that may help. My woodworking journey started as a teenager. In college I got married and built a China cabinet and dining table for my wife in my Dad's shop. The China cabinet is beautiful and I did all of it myself including raised panel doors, but I wasn't into woodturning then so I bought the table legs from a catalog (limited internet back then). I built the rest of the table using those purchased legs. Similarly, I am not a chair maker and honestly have no desire to build wooden chairs, so I bought chairs from an unfinished furniture store. I stained everything to match and we still use this as our dining set today many decades later. My point with all of this is perhaps you should pick & choose what parts of the project to outsource and what parts to take on yourself. I am still guessing here, but let's say you have a few porch column sections to repair, then perhaps get a Shopsmith or other lathe to take on those parts and give it a go. This will fill both the need and the want. IF there are LOTS of balusters to do it may be best to just purchase them. There are lots of online places that fill batch orders like this. You just have to figure out which one has a design you want and order them. Some even do custom designs for you. Another option is do they have to be round? I made a baby crib and the balusters were a slatted type, flat on front and back and cut/curved on sides. Point being that these are easy to batch out with a jig on a router table after bandsawing them. Easier to take on than hand turning lots of balusters. I don't know what the balusters are for, e.g. stair railing or porch railing, etc., but I believe the quantity of these need to be considered for your project. I have been woodturning off and on for a few years now doing bowls and salt/pepper mills. I could replicate and make a duplicate of one design if I chose to, but honestly I would be very slow at it having to compare against the template with calipers. It is very slow for a newbie like myself to start/stop the lathe over and over to check and re-check a design to match it for likeness. I know because my first salt/pepper mills woodturnings were a copy of my gourmet Peugeot ones from my kitchen that are intricate in design.

P.S. One final point on balusters is understand they need to be uniform and spacing is important. IF you are fixing up a house and potentially want to sell it in the future then balusters and open stair openings are checked by housing inspectors. There are maximum spacings (for gaps) involved that must not be exceeded so that a child can't get their limbs or head caught in them. Just pointing this out because if you are doing these yourself, you MUST be consistent on every turning unless your baluster spacing is tighter to compensate. Otherwise it could be a costly lesson when it comes time to sell.
📶RF Guy

Mark V 520 (Bought New '98) | 4" jointer | 6" beltsander | 12" planer | bandsaw | router table | speed reducer | univ. tool rest
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RexLumber
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Re: Which older Shopsmith as a lathe?

Post by RexLumber »

One of my questions remains: can an off-the-shelf duplicator be hooked up to the Shopsmith? The Shopsmith branded duplicator may prove elusive.
roy_okc
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Re: Which older Shopsmith as a lathe?

Post by roy_okc »

RexLumber wrote: Sun Feb 12, 2023 9:16 am One of my questions remains: can an off-the-shelf duplicator be hooked up to the Shopsmith? The Shopsmith branded duplicator may prove elusive.
RexLumber,

You'd have to figure out how to attach one, probably with some additional blocks mounted to the upper way tubes, but something like this one from Rockler could probably be adapted without much trouble.

https://www.rockler.com/lathe-duplicato ... d0QAvD_BwE

Where are you located?
Roy

Mark V/510, Mark V/500 with parts for 510 upgrade, bandsaw, jointer, belt sander, DC3300 w/1 micron bag
Sawstop 3HP 36" PCS w/router table insert
Home designed and built CNC router, another CNC router :D desktop size
CNCed G0704 milling machine
Laser engraver
Way too much other stuff and not enough space :rolleyes:
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RobertTaylor
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Re: Which older Shopsmith as a lathe?

Post by RobertTaylor »

Rex Lumber, I don't see your location listed so it is hard to give advice on finding a SS duplicator. I personaly know of two complete units and some misc. pieces located in NE Ohio.
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jsburger
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Re: Which older Shopsmith as a lathe?

Post by jsburger »

RexLumber wrote: Sun Feb 12, 2023 9:16 am One of my questions remains: can an off-the-shelf duplicator be hooked up to the Shopsmith? The Shopsmith branded duplicator may prove elusive.
There is one on eBay now. They do show up there occasionally. I would not consider them exceptionally rare.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/325532711403?h ... R_a_tuzIYQ
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Re: Which older Shopsmith as a lathe?

Post by JPG »

Would be really nice it it included the rest of it.
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Goldie(Bought New SN 377425)/4" jointer/6" beltsander/12" planer/stripsander/bandsaw/powerstation /Scroll saw/Jig saw /Craftsman 10" ras/Craftsman 6" thicknessplaner/ Dayton10"tablesaw(restoredfromneighborstrashpile)/ Mark VII restoration in 'progress'/ 10
E[/size](SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange
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