Which older Shopsmith as a lathe?

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RFGuy
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Re: Which older Shopsmith as a lathe?

Post by RFGuy »

Rex,

As the other forum members indicated, it is possible to mount the UTR to the 10ER. It just isn't an "out of the box", bolt on kind of thing from what I understand. I have definitely seen past posts where other forum members have successfully done this on the 10ER. I will link a post below, but I know there are others because the one I remember in my mind I haven't been able to find yet. IF you have access to a good quality 10ER locally and want to go that route it is certainly an option.

viewtopic.php?p=258905#p258905
📶RF Guy

Mark V 520 (Bought New '98) | 4" jointer | 6" beltsander | 12" planer | bandsaw | router table | speed reducer | univ. tool rest
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RexLumber
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Re: Which older Shopsmith as a lathe?

Post by RexLumber »

My thanks go out to each of you who have taken the time to respond to my query! I'm learning thanks to your input.

I don't think any of the Shopsmiths I have seen for sale on FM or CL have had the Universal Tool Rest. And it is good to know that the UTR can be attached to the 10ER. Most of the machines I see in my price range are either 10ER or Model 500. I did see one Mark 4...

I think it is probably ok if the Shopsmith lacks some functionality of a standalone lathe. The reality is that I have never used a wood lathe. I know there is going to be a learning curve. I just have aspirations to do some turning (I have a project now where having a lathe, and lathe skills, would be useful). My space is limited so I am attracted to the idea that I that I could get turning capability, drill press functionality and sanding to boot. And I have been curious about the Shopsmith since I was briefly introduced to it some 30 years ago.

Some of the machines I see for sale are missing a part or two and/or the owner doesn't know anything about the machine. I guess I need to find a diagram of the old models; I presume they are somewhere on this site.
Last edited by RexLumber on Sat Feb 11, 2023 8:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
RFGuy
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Re: Which older Shopsmith as a lathe?

Post by RFGuy »

Rex,

Sorry, I hope I didn't complicate things too much by bringing up sanding for woodturning. As a newbie, I believe you will be very happy woodturning on ANY Shopsmith. I don't have reverse on mine, but I know professional turners use it for sanding. Of course professional turners often need very little, if any sanding on their creations. The type of chisels used and technique (dependent on wood species) can leave a silky smooth woodturning without sanding - similar to using hand planes for woodworking, i.e. no sanding required. It is just a consideration, but if you are just starting out then probably don't worry about it. I am still relatively new to woodturning and I still have to sand at the end. You can still sand on the lathe in the forward direction, but you have to be mindful of grain direction and some wood species are better than others for this. You can sand by hand, but many run their lathes while using a power tool like in the video below. For those of us that still need to sand our turning, powered sanding (cordless drill, etc.) can be a real life saver. Good luck with whatever you decide and keep asking any questions here. There are several very talented woodturners on this forum who can respond.

P.S. You will need to decide what kind of woodturner you want to be. There are two main camps. One uses standard lathe chisels and sharpen them often. The other use carbide cutter insert tools like Easy Wood Tools (link below). Standard lathe chisels require technique and discipline and always sharpening while turning, but can result in a smoother finished product that needs less sanding. Carbide insert cutting tools work great on the lathe and you can get very good results with them as well, but the learning curve is much less steep to use them compared to standard chisels. It still requires technique, but just easier so most newbies gravitate towards them. I have both, but have the most experience on the carbide cutters for woodturning, though I hope to get better with standard lathe chisels in the future. I am just not there yet. Think of carbide cutter lathe tools as scraping/shearing the wood, whereas a sharp lathe chisel with the proper grind angle actually cuts into the wood (often along the grain lines). It is wood species dependent, but often woodturnings from standard lathe chisels require little to no sanding typically. Tearout tends to be worse using carbide cutters compared to using sharp standard lathe chisels with proper technique.

P.P.S. There are lots of resources, but I like Carl Jacobson and Ashley Harwood so check out their YouTube channels for techniques, ideas, etc. Ashley does hands on classes where she lives in South Carolina. If I lived closer, I would have already taken one from her. She is world renowned for her woodturning skills and even takes classes/demos to other countries on request. I own both of Ashley's video courses on the The Wood Whisperer Guild. It is an excellent video tutorial on woodturning using standard lathe chisels and is fairly inexpensive if you want to consider them. They are very thorough.

https://www.easywoodtools.com/

https://thewoodwhispererguild.com/product/bowl-turning/

https://thewoodwhispererguild.com/produ ... e-turning/
📶RF Guy

Mark V 520 (Bought New '98) | 4" jointer | 6" beltsander | 12" planer | bandsaw | router table | speed reducer | univ. tool rest
Porter Cable 12" Compound Miter Saw | Rikon 8" Low Speed Bench Grinder w/CBN wheels | Jessem Clear-Cut TS™ Stock Guides
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RFGuy
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Re: Which older Shopsmith as a lathe?

Post by RFGuy »

Rex,

Do you know what types of woodturnings you want to do? The reason that I ask is it may make a difference in what machine you buy or at least what accessories you need with it. Most spindle turnings tend to be small diameter and can be turned at higher speeds. However, if you intend to turn bowls particularly larger ones then you MUST start at lower speeds. Even a perfectly round bowl blank will not necessarily be balanced due to different wood density across the blank. So you have to start at a much lower speed typically with these compared to spindles. For the Mark V (500, 505, 510, 520) or newer Mark 7 you can buy the Shopsmith speed reducer and this helps greatly. I don't know if the speed reducer works on the 10ER or not, but I am sure other forum members here will chime in. Running a wood lathe on too high of a speed and with an out of balance bowl blank will create significant vibration and can even cause the machine to skip across a floor. Also can be more dangerous. I recommend getting an impact resistant face shield and wear it while turning. I know of other turners who have had pieces break off and fly and hit them in the face damaging their teeth, etc. Woodturning can be very safe, but you need the proper safety equipment like anything in woodworking. Always respect when working with any machinery.

https://www.shopsmith.com/ownersite/cat ... educer.htm
SpeedReducer.jpg
SpeedReducer.jpg (19.98 KiB) Viewed 921 times
📶RF Guy

Mark V 520 (Bought New '98) | 4" jointer | 6" beltsander | 12" planer | bandsaw | router table | speed reducer | univ. tool rest
Porter Cable 12" Compound Miter Saw | Rikon 8" Low Speed Bench Grinder w/CBN wheels | Jessem Clear-Cut TS™ Stock Guides
Festool (Emerald): DF 500 Q | RO 150 FEQ | OF 1400 EQ | TS 55 REQ | CT 26 E
DC3300 | Shopvac w/ClearVue CV06 Mini Cyclone | JDS AirTech 2000 | Sundstrom PAPR | Dylos DC1100 Pro particulate monitor
roy_okc
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Re: Which older Shopsmith as a lathe?

Post by roy_okc »

RexLumber,

I'll toss out my experiences and thoughts on using a 500 as a lathe. I bought a used 500, in pretty good condition, around 15+ years ago, it was built, if I remember correctly around 83-84, so it is a grey model, but single bearing quill; it came with a bandsaw and jointer. I can't remember what all I thought I might do with it when I bought it, but trying woodturning was definitely on the list.

I took a class via the then available travelling Shopsmith Academy (or whatever it was called) that gave a hands-on overview of the machine, to include turning a pen (still have that pen #1). I bought a lathe chisel sharpening jig to take care of the pretty dully chisels that I got, and a few other small accessories and turned several pens, maybe a few other smalls. A year or two after buying the 500, I took a general woodworking class at a local vo-tech, and one of the topics was woodturning, with an outstanding local professional turner who has taught at Marc Adams' school as the guest instructor for an evening. After that, I started turning a few larger items between centers, up to a table lamp base. Then I discovered a local woodturners group and started attending their meetings and after much inspiration decided to try my hand at bowls and hollow forms which is where my setup showed its weakness. When turning pieces with the right end unsupported, after turned round and balanced between centers, I got what I can best describe as a random harmonic vibration that could shake the whole machine. To stop the vibration, I had to remove the chisel from the piece, let the vibration stop, and then continue. I tried upgrading to a dual-bearing quill with no luck, made sure I didn't have any play between the 4-jaw chuck and adapter, and probably a couple other things that I can't remember; these got the vibration reduced/less likely to occur, but never entirely eliminated it. Maybe the issue was in the chuck adapter (both chuck and adapter were from Penn State Industries) and I never got all the play out. Other issues for me are that the 500 is louder than modern wood lathes, can be too fast even at the lowest setting for rough turning larger blanks, and the worst for me is the height. I'm just a hair over 6' tall and found that the lathe is several inches too low, causing me to bend over a lot and end up with a sore back when I turned for a couple hours or more; I could reduce that problem a bit by putting the feet on top of a 4x4 on each end but really needed a couple inches or so more than that. I eventually bought a used Jet midi lathe which is so much quieter, smoother, wider speed range, and can be set at optimum height; the lesser power nor smaller capacity hasn't generally a problem on it for what I do.

Above is not intended to dissuade you from getting and using a Shopsmith, it was a great platform to see if I was interested in turning, and since the previous owner included the original chisels, it was really no extra cost other than the sharpening jig I bought to get started. If I only wanted to turn between centers, I might have not bought the midi lathe and built taller blocks to get it to a better height for me. Also, if I wanted to turn something longer than the midi can take, I can still use the Shopsmith.
Roy

Mark V/510, Mark V/500 with parts for 510 upgrade, bandsaw, jointer, belt sander, DC3300 w/1 micron bag
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RexLumber
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Re: Which older Shopsmith as a lathe?

Post by RexLumber »

Hi RFGuy,

With regard to the type of wood turning products I want to make, my aspirations mostly involve vintage house parts. I am restoring a Queen Anne Victorian residence. All of my vintage (and not so vintage) power tools in my shop are used for this task. I have had miscellaneous turned parts produced for me by a local woodturner (who has done very good work for me), but he is *very* busy. I have more parts to produce; turned balusters are on the immediate agenda. That's why I mentioned the Shopsmith lathe duplicator.

Good point on the face shield... I've seen folks using them in various turning videos. I do have one.
RexLumber
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Re: Which older Shopsmith as a lathe?

Post by RexLumber »

Roy, thank you for sharing your experience. The NVH point you make is interesting.

Everything I envision doing would be between centers. The largest pieces I imagine turning would be a porch column bases or capitals, or repair sections for column ends, all on the order of 6" in diameter. Or perhaps turning a similar piece for one of my neighbors...
RFGuy
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Re: Which older Shopsmith as a lathe?

Post by RFGuy »

Rex,

Honestly, it sounds like you are doing more production work or semi-production work and doing some rather large mass (6" diameter by how long porch columns?). Just my opinion, but I wouldn't recommend this on any Shopsmith. In earnest the Shopsmith is a hobbyist platform and some do use them for production work for some types of woodworking. However, knowing your intent now and to leverage off of Roy's feedback, I really would NOT recommend a Shopsmith platform for this. You will need low speed to turn those large porch columns. Yes, there have been the occasional person post on this forum about taking on such a massive project using a Shopsmith. One even connected two of them together to turn a large column. In my opinion this is dangerous, especially for a new person to woodturning. Also the speed reducer takes up carriage space so you have even less bed length for a turning. IF you want to take this on, I highly recommend getting a serious quality lathe...one with cast iron bed and legs. You will need the weight and rigidity to tame the vibrations from turning such a large, off-balance mass. Also a good quality lathe will be able to give you the low speed range that you need and will have better concentricity than the Shopsmith platform - also better able to handle the load forces required for such a large turning. I don't have Roy's experience, but I echo many of the points he raised. I am 6'0" tall and the Shopsmith platform is too low to do woodworking on so I have to sit on a stool. I wouldn't recommend this for turning a large mass like a porch column because if it happens to come unseated you want to be able to get out of the way as fast as possible.
📶RF Guy

Mark V 520 (Bought New '98) | 4" jointer | 6" beltsander | 12" planer | bandsaw | router table | speed reducer | univ. tool rest
Porter Cable 12" Compound Miter Saw | Rikon 8" Low Speed Bench Grinder w/CBN wheels | Jessem Clear-Cut TS™ Stock Guides
Festool (Emerald): DF 500 Q | RO 150 FEQ | OF 1400 EQ | TS 55 REQ | CT 26 E
DC3300 | Shopvac w/ClearVue CV06 Mini Cyclone | JDS AirTech 2000 | Sundstrom PAPR | Dylos DC1100 Pro particulate monitor
RexLumber
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Re: Which older Shopsmith as a lathe?

Post by RexLumber »

To be clear, I am talking about repair sections for columns, not full columns. Maybe 12-16" long by 6" diameter. If a blank for a 14" diameter bowl could be turned on a Shopsmith (as I've read on this forum), why not what I describe?

Regardless, my immediate pursuit is balusters...
RFGuy
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Re: Which older Shopsmith as a lathe?

Post by RFGuy »

RexLumber wrote: Sat Feb 11, 2023 10:15 am To be clear, I am talking about repair sections for columns, not full columns. Maybe 12-16" long by 6" diameter. If a blank for a 14" diameter bowl could be turned on a Shopsmith (as I've read on this forum), why not what I describe?

Regardless, my immediate pursuit is balusters...
Rex,

My advice keeps changing on this thread and for that I apologize. I made false assumptions of what you intended to use it for. Let me start over. Given the information I have now, I would say it is "possible" to do small sections, 6" diameter x 16" long on any Shopsmith. However, this a good amount of mass. We haven't even talked about the wood species, how wet it is, etc. I can't say 100% that this will be smooth sailing on every Shopsmith because some of the older ones have smaller motors and may not be up to the task for this size of turning. IDK. Yes, some Shopsmiths have successfully turned large bowls, using a speed reducer and/or on the newer PowerPro headstock. Just because you see a pretty picture in a Shopsmith catalog/website with a large bowl don't assume it was easy and/or that the turner didn't have a ton of experience to begin with before hopping on that Shopsmith. The largest bowl I have done so far is 8" as that is all I am comfortable with at my current skill level. As Roy stated and I am reiterating that the Shopsmith platform can be used for woodturning, but there are some caveats to it as already mentioned. Doing a lot of work on it for woodturning is going to be very fatiguing unless you are short in height. A stool helps (or putting the machine up on a platform), but the body dynamics are just not right for it as-is unfortunately. It is a compromise because if the machine were taller then it would be too high for tablesaw, etc. modes. Sure you can buy a cheap used Shopsmith, but it sounds like you will likely need a speed reducer and a lathe duplicator for sure and potentially a universal tool rest. Unless you can find all of these on the used market, I really think you need to look at the economics of it and think about how many of these turnings you have to produce. What I am saying is it is "possible" to do all of this on a Shopsmith, but you may be much happier, more productive, less fatigue and body aches going with some kind of dedicated lathe instead. I don't know the pricing of duplicators for other machines, but I know when you add up those 3 accessories at new Shopsmith prices you are well on your way to owning a solid dedicated lathe (assuming you have room in your shop for it), so buying a Shopsmith for this particular semi-production work may not be in your best interest. Anyway, I hope this helps and sorry for any confusion I may have caused.
📶RF Guy

Mark V 520 (Bought New '98) | 4" jointer | 6" beltsander | 12" planer | bandsaw | router table | speed reducer | univ. tool rest
Porter Cable 12" Compound Miter Saw | Rikon 8" Low Speed Bench Grinder w/CBN wheels | Jessem Clear-Cut TS™ Stock Guides
Festool (Emerald): DF 500 Q | RO 150 FEQ | OF 1400 EQ | TS 55 REQ | CT 26 E
DC3300 | Shopvac w/ClearVue CV06 Mini Cyclone | JDS AirTech 2000 | Sundstrom PAPR | Dylos DC1100 Pro particulate monitor
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