Used Power Pro Headstock

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RFGuy
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Re: Used Power Pro Headstock

Post by RFGuy »

gac5ss wrote: Wed Feb 22, 2023 11:52 am I have also concluded that the value to cost ratio is too low for me right now. For my use, the same money spent on a 3HP cabinet saw would be make more sense. If I were to put $2500 in Power Pro set up, then added the double tilt for another $414 from Lowes, I would be way over leveraged in my Shopsmith. I have always bought them used and resold them later for a small profit. The market will not bear the $4200 I would have in it then. Even if I sold the jointer and bandsaw separate for $300 each. A potential buyer would be having the same internal discussion I am having. Why buy used if new is a few hundred more gets you a warranty, etc.

By the way, I have sent Shopsmith an email asking why they will sell the double grooved main table tubes in a user serviceable assembly (Double Tilt), but won't sell them without the tie Bar. Granted the tubes may be 90% of the cost of the tie bar assembly. I asked them that too. Maybe I will get an answer.

Thanks for all your advice.
Yeah, I wasn't trying to talk you out of the PowerPro if you had your heart set on it, but they are EXPENSIVE. Don't get me wrong, I love almost all of my Shopsmith gear and I have only one Mark V (small shop). I got into it as a teenager in my Dad's shop and when I could afford it, I bought my own 510 and all new accessories. I added it up once and I have spent over $10k on all of my Shopsmith brand shop gear. Looking back on it now, there are areas where I wished I had diversified a bit because that $10k could have gone a bit further and given more capabilities in certain areas than my Shopsmith purchase. I still love many aspects of my Shopsmith equipment and use it regularly, but as an example I don't do sheet goods on it anymore. I LOVE my Festool tracksaw for this. Many non-Shopsmith woodworkers make small shops work with router tables dropped in one wing of a cabinet tablesaw. Also there are lots of other tricks/tips for small woodworking shops. I still enjoy using my Shopsmith, but honestly if it hadn't been the connection with my Dad's shop, I likely would have all single purpose tools from other manufacturers. That $10k investment in Shopsmith is what keeps me on their platform for better or worse. Well, that and the emotional/sentimental connection of using it with my Dad as a teen. Good luck with it if you do decide to go ahead with the PowerPro purchase.

P.S. I would LOVE to have a 3HP cabinet tablesaw...one day. :)
📶RF Guy

Mark V 520 (Bought New '98) | 4" jointer | 6" beltsander | 12" planer | bandsaw | router table | speed reducer | univ. tool rest
Porter Cable 12" Compound Miter Saw | Rikon 8" Low Speed Bench Grinder w/CBN wheels | Jessem Clear-Cut TS™ Stock Guides
Festool (Emerald): DF 500 Q | RO 150 FEQ | OF 1400 EQ | TS 55 REQ | CT 26 E
DC3300 | Shopvac w/ClearVue CV06 Mini Cyclone | JDS AirTech 2000 | Sundstrom PAPR | Dylos DC1100 Pro particulate monitor
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gac5ss
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Re: Used Power Pro Headstock

Post by gac5ss »

RF, you all just gave me information to think about. I kind of got excited about the pre-owned headstock, but later realized there was more risk to it than I first considered. You guys just talked me down.

And then there is the wife's potential reaction for spending that much money. I used to listen to a radio program where the host had what he called the 48 hour rule. If you can get a purchase in the garage, and do it without her seeing it for 48 hours, you make her believe it has been there all the time. I don't know if the 48 hour rule would work here. To her credit, she told me if I wanted a Saw Stop table saw, get it. But that is a stretch to justify that, considering I would not use it enough.
RFGuy
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Re: Used Power Pro Headstock

Post by RFGuy »

gac5ss wrote: Wed Feb 22, 2023 1:52 pm RF, you all just gave me information to think about. I kind of got excited about the pre-owned headstock, but later realized there was more risk to it than I first considered. You guys just talked me down.

And then there is the wife's potential reaction for spending that much money. I used to listen to a radio program where the host had what he called the 48 hour rule. If you can get a purchase in the garage, and do it without her seeing it for 48 hours, you make her believe it has been there all the time. I don't know if the 48 hour rule would work here. To her credit, she told me if I wanted a Saw Stop table saw, get it. But that is a stretch to justify that, considering I would not use it enough.
Yeah, we all have different viewpoints on the forum. Not saying my viewpoint is the correct one, but I just have a different perspective based on my past experience, the projects I like to work on and the characteristics I value in woodworking tools. An analogy that I would make is the PowerPro is akin to a Ferrari (any model), whereas the Mark V headstock is more like a Camaro. Both will go fast and have power to do what most want, but the PowerPro has a bit more juice and features. Of course, it is more expensive and costs more for maintenance/repairs. :( While I would love a Ferrari/PowerPro, I am also quite content with my Mark V for now. Hopefully I didn't offend any gearheads with my analogy! :D
📶RF Guy

Mark V 520 (Bought New '98) | 4" jointer | 6" beltsander | 12" planer | bandsaw | router table | speed reducer | univ. tool rest
Porter Cable 12" Compound Miter Saw | Rikon 8" Low Speed Bench Grinder w/CBN wheels | Jessem Clear-Cut TS™ Stock Guides
Festool (Emerald): DF 500 Q | RO 150 FEQ | OF 1400 EQ | TS 55 REQ | CT 26 E
DC3300 | Shopvac w/ClearVue CV06 Mini Cyclone | JDS AirTech 2000 | Sundstrom PAPR | Dylos DC1100 Pro particulate monitor
edma194
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Re: Used Power Pro Headstock

Post by edma194 »

The current comparison should be something like a Camaro in relation to a Tesla. It's a difference in technology. Personally I'd still rather have the Ferarri though.
Ed from Rhode Island

510 PowerPro Double Tilt:Greenie PowerPro Drill Press:500 Sanding Shorty w/Belt&Strip Sanders
Super Sawsmith 2000:Scroll Saw w/Stand:Joint-Matic:Power Station:Power Stand:Bandsaw:Joiner:Jigsaw
1961 Goldie:1960 Sawsmith RAS:10ER
RFGuy
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Re: Used Power Pro Headstock

Post by RFGuy »

Ed,

Except with the Tesla with FSD enabled you would lose all fingers on one hand while using it (in woodworking analogy)...not a fan of that company/car. :(

P.S. But, yeah I get your point about the motor architecture of the Tesla compared to the switched reluctance design in the PowerPro.
📶RF Guy

Mark V 520 (Bought New '98) | 4" jointer | 6" beltsander | 12" planer | bandsaw | router table | speed reducer | univ. tool rest
Porter Cable 12" Compound Miter Saw | Rikon 8" Low Speed Bench Grinder w/CBN wheels | Jessem Clear-Cut TS™ Stock Guides
Festool (Emerald): DF 500 Q | RO 150 FEQ | OF 1400 EQ | TS 55 REQ | CT 26 E
DC3300 | Shopvac w/ClearVue CV06 Mini Cyclone | JDS AirTech 2000 | Sundstrom PAPR | Dylos DC1100 Pro particulate monitor
edma194
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Re: Used Power Pro Headstock

Post by edma194 »

RFGuy wrote: Wed Feb 22, 2023 3:43 pm Ed,

Except with the Tesla with FSD enabled you would lose all fingers on one hand while using it (in woodworking analogy)...not a fan of that company/car. :(

P.S. But, yeah I get your point about the motor architecture of the Tesla compared to the switched reluctance design in the PowerPro.
Yeah, Musk needs to work together with SawStop to make a car that's safe to drive. Or just don't allow FSD. I don't understand that, am I allowed to turn on cruise control in my car and go to sleep? Why are driverless cars allowed on the road?
Ed from Rhode Island

510 PowerPro Double Tilt:Greenie PowerPro Drill Press:500 Sanding Shorty w/Belt&Strip Sanders
Super Sawsmith 2000:Scroll Saw w/Stand:Joint-Matic:Power Station:Power Stand:Bandsaw:Joiner:Jigsaw
1961 Goldie:1960 Sawsmith RAS:10ER
RFGuy
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Re: Used Power Pro Headstock

Post by RFGuy »

edma194 wrote: Wed Feb 22, 2023 5:02 pm Yeah, Musk needs to work together with SawStop to make a car that's safe to drive. Or just don't allow FSD. I don't understand that, am I allowed to turn on cruise control in my car and go to sleep? Why are driverless cars allowed on the road?
Ed,

Yeah, it is idiotic...just like he is. Tesla is only Level 2 autonomous. There are 5 levels for vehicle autonomy and Level 2 is only ADAS (Advanced Driver Assistance Systems), but Tesla is marketing and selling the platform as being Level 5 (full autonomous). Honestly, I don't know how they have gotten by this long without a major fraud/false advertising class action lawsuit against them. I know a little bit about autonomous vehicles and ADAS because I did a bit of work in that industry in another life. For anyone interested, the article linked below has a description of the 5 autonomous vehicle levels.

https://www.acvauctions.com/blog/levels ... us-driving
📶RF Guy

Mark V 520 (Bought New '98) | 4" jointer | 6" beltsander | 12" planer | bandsaw | router table | speed reducer | univ. tool rest
Porter Cable 12" Compound Miter Saw | Rikon 8" Low Speed Bench Grinder w/CBN wheels | Jessem Clear-Cut TS™ Stock Guides
Festool (Emerald): DF 500 Q | RO 150 FEQ | OF 1400 EQ | TS 55 REQ | CT 26 E
DC3300 | Shopvac w/ClearVue CV06 Mini Cyclone | JDS AirTech 2000 | Sundstrom PAPR | Dylos DC1100 Pro particulate monitor
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gac5ss
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Re: Used Power Pro Headstock

Post by gac5ss »

I received an answer back from SS on the double grooved tube only option. Here is their responses.

556225 will get you 2-tubes 522797, 2-pins 514347 and installation literature
Pins are single-use and must be replaced each time
I can set 556225 up as a one-time sale if this is what you need....
Just let us know.
Thank you

556225 is running for $240.58 before shipping and taxes.

Thank you,
Shopsmith

I wasn't too far off the 90/10 guess on the tubes to tie bar cost, it costs $4.09 more for just the tubes and pins over the cost of the tie bar assembly. $240.58 vs $236.49. I could be a little cynical here, but will give them the benefit of the doubt that it truly does cost more to separate them than to sell as an assembly.
Jerry
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gac5ss
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Re: Used Power Pro Headstock

Post by gac5ss »

dusty wrote: Tue Feb 21, 2023 3:02 pm
gac5ss wrote: Tue Feb 21, 2023 1:20 pm As much as I would like to have the Power Pro headstock, I can't really justify the cost to value benefit right now. I mounted my current headstock with the disk sander plate and manually turned the speed dial to low speed. No rattling sounds or binding occurred. I plunged it in and ran the speed dial from low to high back to low. Then switched it off. It will need the usual cleaning, oiling, and possibly new belts, but it appears to be in good shape.

I have viewed some of the threads on the double tilt upgrade. $400 plus seems a high price to pay. I surmised that Shopsmith will not sell the double grooved main table posts outside of the double tilt kit? Is there any real benefit to have the double tilt with out the Power Pro?

Thanks
By all means. The double tilt castings make for a much more stable machine. Much more capable of repeatable precision.. However the benefits of the double tilt can be achieved in another way.

viewtopic.php?t=31631
Now back to the Double Tilt:
When the saddle joint is created in the user version of the double tilt, is the set screw the only thing keeping the pivoting point from falling away from the legs? I must not be seeing this correctly. I have seen a youtube video where a guy modified the pivot pin where it was removable. Since I can't see the opposite side of the double tilt brackets on SS web site, I can't compare.
Thanks
Jerry
DLB
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Re: Used Power Pro Headstock

Post by DLB »

gac5ss wrote: Thu Feb 23, 2023 6:42 am Now back to the Double Tilt:
When the saddle joint is created in the user version of the double tilt, is the set screw the only thing keeping the pivoting point from falling away from the legs? I must not be seeing this correctly. I have seen a youtube video where a guy modified the pivot pin where it was removable. Since I can't see the opposite side of the double tilt brackets on SS web site, I can't compare.
The saddle joint is similar to or same as the OEM approach. Pulling the pin is an alternative approach. The OEM version uses a pointed 3/8" bolt, I used similar on my shop-made DTs. I believe Ed said he used a larger bolt, and his has the larger diameter (old style 3/4") pins. Your 520 likely has the newer 1/2" hinge pins, same as the OEM DT. But yes, the bolt is what is preventing separation and there have been incidents. My incident was with factory DT.

That pricing scheme from your previous post is amazing.

- David
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