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[RFGuy]

Russ,

Good points and I agree. You are right about Scott and I have to say he stayed cool , calm and collected throughout. Kudos. To me this was impressive because you could feel strong emotion (anger ) coming from John in his voice (since he was attacked online for his video). Only Scott knows what it was like to be there in person. Seemed to me in a few sections that Scott was perhaps about to say something next to give more detail on owning a Shopsmith Mark V and was cut off by a wisecrack and/or subject change by John. Maybe my imagination. Other times, there were moments of opportunity that I believe Scott could have seized on, but it is difficult, in the moment, to always jump in. Especially because it seemed like the video was one continuous take and John is a fast talker and likes to interrupt. Yeah, that "comparable" 5 tools bench that John came up with was a joke. Just goes to show that he truly doesn't understand the difference between one tool and another. NOT a serious or even a casual woodworker IMHO. More like a weekend warrior run amuck.

[Ed in Tampa]

If you have problems with the five-point safety check. I highly recommend that you watch TV. You do not belong in a wood/machine shop at all.

They are inherently hazardous.

Just another opinion.

Who said I had a problem with the five point check. I said most beginners do not know it. That makes them prone to never do it and are very prone to forget to do it.
I probably been in a wood/machine shop longer than you have been alive. I also have gotten to see many amputations, serious wounds, damaged equipment and wounds from people that were mechanically inclined but had no idea of the inherent dangers hidden in power wood working equipment.
Also the fact the Shopsmith is so versatile makes it have the potential to be more dangerous.

Lastly to be a woodworker you have to learn more than turning a machine on.
There is wood type and which is best for project, wood grain, wood grain direction, wood flaws and how to deal with them (some must be avoided, some enhanced, some used to enhance the finished project). You have to learn about warp and curvature and how it will affect the project, you have to learn to incorporate wood warp/curvature into the project or reject the the board.
Nothing will teach you how to properly handle wood faster or better than mastering hand tools initially. Too many people do not even understand how to properly use glue let alone a tablesaw. Witness spend an evening in the local ER. See the people come in with fingers glued together, framing nails through their wrist, or a plastic bags with ice and fingers.

I was blessed with my school offering me shop classes from 7 th grade on. I was also blessed with a shop teacher that taught us to use and respect hand tools long before we ever touched a power tool. I learned to take a log, mill it down by hand, cut shape and use it to build projects, I further learned how to sand it to a finish state and then mixed various chemicals together to make a finish and how to apply and rub it out until you could see yourself in it. Then and only then were we allowed on machines and before we make anything our shop teacher tested us on its use even the floor vac.

Sadly we had guys break bandsaw blades, cut themselves, burn themselves and get clobbered with hunks of wood that they were sure they knew everything that needed to be known to use the machine. I my motto the minute you feel comfortable with a machine is when you get hurt. Think about it rookies rarely get killed on motorcycles it is usually the guy who thinks he is a seasoned rider. His guard was down.

[RFGuy]

Ed,

I agree with many points you make here. While I was watching John and Scott's recent videos, I thought to myself what is the best way to learn subjects such as woodworking? Clearly being taught by an experienced person, preferably in person, is the absolute best. However, there should also be room for self discovery. The whole point of the Shopsmith system, in my opinion, was that the every day man could own one and be able to produce woodworking projects in the home, for the home. I seem to remember some of the print advertising shared here previously echoed this. Sure, some fortunate individuals benefited from having on the job training and/or shop class before purchasing one, but many did not. A similar hobby and one that can be equally as dangerous is wrenching on one own's automobile. Surely, no one expects to have a job as a mechanic first or to even be apprenticed by one if they want to make their own car repairs or start rebuilding that hot rod that has been collecting dust in the garage? Jumping in and learning as you go is often a necessity for many, but of course any resource (manual, training course, books, episodes of The New Yankee Workshop, advice of a friend, etc.) is useful. To be sure, it can be a dangerous hobby and I am open to any and all suggestions for how it can be made safer...not just for the beginner, but also those of us with a bit more experience who can grow complacent in our safety mindfulness.

P.S. To your point, this is why I think newer platforms like YT and Tik Tok for learning can be quite dangerous in how they show woodworking as their technique and safety procedures are typically less than adequate. They seek to turn everyone into an ADHD child with as short of an attention span as possible, just like John M. This problem with woodworking "education" on YT has been discussed at length on previous threads here in the past.

[JPG]

Folks with short attention spans rarely gain any resemblance of complete understanding.

Unfortunately those are becoming the norm.

[RFGuy]

Folks with short attention spans rarely gain any resemblance of complete understanding.

Unfortunately those are becoming the norm.

+1

I agree and this is partly due to modern society and how we choose to interact with technology. Also, just want to say that I was not trying to make light of anyone with ADHD. For those who have it, and understand it, it is not that they can't focus. Certain aspects of modern society are very difficult for them to give sustained attention to. On the other hand, there are subjects that they can have deep interest for and on those tasks they often have a long attention span and can hyper focus on those. Just pointing this out so that no one thinks I am making fun of ADHD and is a complex manifestation of how some individuals process our world due to their unique brain architecture. In the video, John came off like a disinterested child who can't take the time to read at least the safety section of an owner's manual. Very immature IMHO.

[JPG]

Not the only indication of late childhood!

[edma194]

To be sure, it can be a dangerous hobby and I am open to any and all suggestions for how it can be made safer...not just for the beginner, but also those of us with a bit more experience who can grow complacent in our safety mindfulness.

P.S. To your point, this is why I think newer platforms like YT and Tik Tok for learning can be quite dangerous in how they show woodworking as their technique and safety procedures are typically less than adequate. They seek to turn everyone into an ADHD child with as short of an attention span as possible, just like John M. This problem with woodworking "education" on YT has been discussed at length on previous threads here in the past.

I learned to use some hand tools and hand-held power tools like drills and circular saws from my dad. I also took woodshop in Jr. High School. That was enough get me going in the right direction, along with a natural sense to gain as much information as I could before learning by doing. A Shopsmith is a complicated machine and hopefully most people realize that a multi-purpose machine is going to be more complicated than a single purpose tool. Hopefully they also realize single purpose tools may not be as simple as presented in a YouTube video.

YouTube videos try to convince viewers that woodworking is easy to do. A video titled "A difficult project with a lot to learn before you start" won't pick up a lot of views. Add a subtitle "If you're not careful doing this you might cut your fingers off or put out your eye" will just discourage more people. There might be good videos on the basics of using power tools but I don't think they get many views, people want to see some instructions for making a nice looking and/or useful thing with minimal effort and skills.

Miter saws could easily remove fingers and whole hands but I don't think it happens with an intolerable level of frequency because the dangers are obvious and few people will act like a Malecki when using one. There should be instructional videos for those who want to learn but there's no point in trying to convince the folks who simply don't care. Perhaps tool manufacturers would sponsor some general tool use and safety video clips that they'd permit other YouTubers to include in their videos.