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[edma194]

One statement that I found annoying from John, and Scott agreed with him, was that the Mark V is NOT for a beginner woodworker. I vehemently disagree with this notion.

I don't think any power tool is safe for the kind of beginner Malecki describes himself as. He has never seen set screws, never seen an elastomeric coupler, and never aligned his tools because he thinks they were fine the way they came from the factory, and then apparently he expected a used Shopsmith to be perfectly aligned also. I hope no one considers his opinion on the subject of tools to be credible.

A Shopsmith is a better tool for a beginner than many others. Among other things it is far better documented than any tool I've ever had. It has documentation for both usage and maintenance, and then a wealth of additional information from other sources. It is still a space saver too. Scott deserves credit for the highly professional approach he took in his videos addressing this subject. It's a shame the same was not done by Mr. Malecki.

[RFGuy]

I don't think any power tool is safe for the kind of beginner Malecki describes himself as. He has never seen set screws, never seen an elastomeric coupler, and never aligned his tools because he thinks they were fine the way they came from the factory, and then apparently he expected a used Shopsmith to be perfectly aligned also. I hope no one considers his opinion on the subject of tools to be credible.

A Shopsmith is a better tool for a beginner than many others. Among other things it is far better documented than any tool I've ever had. It has documentation for both usage and maintenance, and then a wealth of additional information from other sources. It is still a space saver too. Scott deserves credit for the highly professional approach he took in his videos addressing this subject. It's a shame the same was not done by Mr. Malecki.

Ed,

I agree. I applaud Scott for taking John on and attempting to educate him. I kinda feel like there were probably many useful discussions that got edited out of that video - points where Scott seemed about to explain something important relative to owning a Shopsmith tool and then John changed the subject. At least it seemed that way in watching it. On the point of beginner tools and John, it seems like he thinks a beginner should open a woodworking power tool out of the box and use it without ever reading an instruction manual. Probably the dumbest part of that entire video IMHO.

[HopefulSSer]

John "admitted" he was wrong in the video. But the way he cut the video still made it seem like the SS is too complex, too arcane, and not a good value. He kept harping on how difficult it is to set up without acknowledging that that task is a one-time necessity when buying a used tool with an unknown history. I wouldn't trust ANY used tool without verifying it was in proper shape to be used. I wouldn't trust any NEW tool for that matter! So I think he "admitted" he was wrong (wink wink) without actually doing so. Perhaps Scott should have stipulated that they edited the final cut of the video together...

[JPG]

"Perhaps Scott should have stipulated that they edited the final cut of the video together..."

+1

[BigSky]

John "admitted" he was wrong in the video. But the way he cut the video still made it seem like the SS is too complex, too arcane, and not a good value. He kept harping on how difficult it is to set up without acknowledging that that task is a one-time necessity when buying a used tool with an unknown history. I wouldn't trust ANY used tool without verifying it was in proper shape to be used. I wouldn't trust any NEW tool for that matter! So I think he "admitted" he was wrong (wink wink) without actually doing so. Perhaps Scott should have stipulated that they edited the final cut of the video together...

Maybe it is too complex for him! He has an opinion and he is sticking to it. So be it.

If I had that huge workshop and could afford all the equipment he has in it, I would not have a Shopsmith either. I would have a shop full of large, standalone power tools starting with a Delta Table saw from the eighties.

[Ed in Tampa]

Ok, I tried to watch the video of Scott with John and I just couldn't get past the first 5 minutes of it. The background music was very distracting and took away from the discussion, which I have to assume John did on purpose because he didn't want to make this video. He seemed very domineering and over talked Scott throughout the portion that I watched. One statement that I found annoying from John, and Scott agreed with him, was that the Mark V is NOT for a beginner woodworker. I vehemently disagree with this notion.

I agree the Mark V is not for beginner woodworkers! I do not believe any beginner woodworker should start using machines. They should begin with hand tools most of which can still injure them but not likely to the extent a powered machine can. I shudder watching YouTube “experts” operate most powered machines. People have absolutely no concept of how dangerous a powered tool can be. Is the Shopsmith more dangerous than most? Yes I think it is, unless you have the five point safety check as a part of muscle memory rather than something you are trying to remember you are in serious danger. Not many other wood working machines requires that much caution before you even turn it on.

[BigSky]

If you have problems with the five-point safety check. I highly recommend that you watch TV. You do not belong in a wood/machine shop at all.

They are inherently hazardous.

Just another opinion.

[JPG]

To say nothing re tapered flats, set screws . . . .

Do 'newbies' have ANY mechanical aptitude these days???

[RFGuy]

If I had that huge workshop and could afford all the equipment he has in it, I would not have a Shopsmith either. I would have a shop full of large, standalone power tools starting with a Delta Table saw from the eighties.

+1.

Wish I had a woodworking shop that large and all standalone tools. I love my Shopsmith, but got started on it learning it with my Dad so it has more sentimentality for me as a result. Without that bias, I would prefer a large shop with standalone tools...as many vintage ones as possible, or at least the highest quality ones from whatever decade that is.

I agree the Mark V is not for beginner woodworkers! I do not believe any beginner woodworker should start using machines. They should begin with hand tools most of which can still injure them but not likely to the extent a powered machine can. I shudder watching YouTube “experts” operate most powered machines. People have absolutely no concept of how dangerous a powered tool can be. Is the Shopsmith more dangerous than most? Yes I think it is, unless you have the five point safety check as a part of muscle memory rather than something you are trying to remember you are in serious danger. Not many other wood working machines requires that much caution before you even turn it on.

Ed,

I guess my experience is outside of the norm again. I started on a Mark V as a teenager and learned it as my Dad learned it. He bought it from the Shopsmith store an hour away and I only think he got a walkthrough of it from the salesman at the time. It was just that and the manual/VHS tape to guide us. Before this, my Dad used a Craftsman TS for a bit, but my starting point was the Mark V with some oversight from my Dad. However it was new to him so I would say we really learned together on it. I have always been mechanically inclined, i.e. taking things apart and putting them back together as a kid. Perhaps I can't fully understand/appreciate what the newbie experience is for woodworking then. With what is required for woodworking hand tool maintenance and proper body position, etc., unless you have an expert looking over your shoulder and teaching you, I can't comprehend how a beginner (on their own) is better off with hand tools (block plane, chisels, handsaw, etc.). Yes, power tools are more inherently dangerous, but I don't see a Mark V as any more dangerous than a standalone bandsaw not properly setup (blade walking off wheels), a yahoo using a standalone drill press for the first time and having a workpiece get caught and hitting them, any standalone lathe (enough said), etc., etc. I will concede though that perhaps standalone TS is considerably safer than the adjustable table and open format of the Mark V. JMO.

[chapmanruss]

I did watch the entire video and kudos to Scott for handling himself in a professional manner. I agree with a lot of what has already been said.

One thing that really doesn't get a comparison is the Manual. John complains about the 209 page manual being too long to read before using the Shopsmith. Apparently, he doesn't like to read manuals but I hope he can read a first aid book. Sorry a cheap shot but a little truth there too. If you have the comparable stand-alone tools, a Table Saw, Drill Press, Horizontal Boring Machine, Disk Sander and Lathe how many pages would the combined manuals add up to. It would be foolish to not read them before using the individual tool just the same as a Shopsmith.

I do find John's "comparable" tool bench laughable trying to compare his compact bench of tools (and only three functions) to the capabilities of a Shopsmith fitting in a similar size space. John's Bench Table Saw has nowhere near the capacity (fence to blade) of even my Shopsmith Model 10E and the Table Saw is what most users of the Shopsmith find to be the least desirable function with the tilting table. I could go on but it is like comparing apples to oranges.

I do hope John's Mark V goes to someone who will enjoy using it for their woodworking projects. And John please include the Manuals with it.