Old shopsmith with a poorly replaced motor

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joneill4
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Joined: Sun May 21, 2023 12:14 pm

Old shopsmith with a poorly replaced motor

Post by joneill4 »

Someone gave me an old (cogged belt) Shopsmith about 20 years ago, and it has been collecting dust ever since. I recently bought a G3 chuck for it and made 6 or 7 bowls. I found that is worked fine at lower speeds, but the belt would slip at higher speeds. I found that a previous owner had replaced the motor using a standard sheave. To account for the changing belt length, the motor plate is only held on with 2 of the 4 bolts. This allows the motor weight to keep tension for about half of the speed range. As soon as I realized what the PO had done, I ordered a new motor sheave from Shopsmith. Since I am seeing that everyone mentions one of two motors, I am wondering if I can make the proper sheave work with my replacement motor. I also only bought the sheave, but I'm guessing there are more parts that I should have gotten to make the system work.
edma194
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Re: Old shopsmith with a poorly replaced motor

Post by edma194 »

Most motors do not have the proper shaft for use with the Shopsmith sheaves.
Ed from Rhode Island

510 PowerPro Double Tilt:Greenie PowerPro Drill Press:500 Sanding Shorty w/Belt&Strip Sanders
Super Sawsmith 2000:Scroll Saw w/Stand:Joint-Matic:Power Station:Power Stand:Bandsaw:Joiner:Jigsaw
1961 Goldie:1960 Sawsmith RAS:10ER
HopefulSSer
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Re: Old shopsmith with a poorly replaced motor

Post by HopefulSSer »

edma194 wrote: Fri May 26, 2023 9:04 am Most motors do not have the proper shaft for use with the Shopsmith sheaves.
Right. joneill4, can you post a pic of the motor you have?
Greenie SN 362819 (upgraded to 510), Bandsaw 106878, Jointer SS16466
joneill4
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Re: Old shopsmith with a poorly replaced motor

Post by joneill4 »

Well my first purchase from Shopsmith was a fail. What Shopsmith calls a sheave, I would call a half a sheave. After receiving the part, I can clearly see on the diagram that it is indeed two separate parts. I believe I would be better off buying a headstock from that auction site.
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chapmanruss
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Re: Old shopsmith with a poorly replaced motor

Post by chapmanruss »

joneill4,

Welcome to the Shopsmith Forum.

Since you described it as
an old (cogged belt) Shopsmith
I am guessing it is a Mark 5 Greenie from the 1950's or an early Goldie Mark 5. They used the Gilmer Belt as opposed to the Poly V Belt used since the early 1960's. The original motor would have been a 3/4 HP motor. If your Shopsmith has a made for Shopsmith motor the parts should work but you may need more parts than you ordered. The 1st picture below shows an A. O. Smith motor from a Mark 5 Greenie. You will notice in the picture there is a spring and a bolt on the end of the shaft to retain the spring. It is this spring that keeps tension on the movable sheeve to make the speed adjustment system function. The 2nd picture below shows a G. E. Motor and notice the cap used to help retain the spring. Emerson motors were also used in the early Mark 5's.

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Motor A O Smith 3-4.jpg
Motor A O Smith 3-4.jpg (80.3 KiB) Viewed 1433 times
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Motor GE 3-4.jpg
Motor GE 3-4.jpg (79.54 KiB) Viewed 1433 times
.
If the motor in your Mark 5 is not one made for the Shopsmith Mark 5 or Mark V It will be difficult to make it work. This is why HopefulSSer suggested you post a picture of the motor you have.

The Motor Pulley is made up of two Sheaves, one fixed (closest to the motor) and one floating. The idea of getting a used Headstock might be a good one for you. All the parts of a conventional headstock no matter when it was made can fit in any Headstock casting. Getting a later working Headstock will not only give you the correct motor it may be the 1-1/8 HP Motor. Besides that, you may get the Poly V Drive parts and Quill. A plus if you are having to change the motor you have. You can still keep the same look of your Mark 5 by putting the parts of the Headstock you buy in your current Headstock.

It is important to know that there have been a lot of changes to the Mark 5/V conventional Headstock over the years. Some of the changes require using more than a single part and must be done as an assembly or even more than one assembly. For example, going from a Gilmer Drive to the Poly V Drive requires changes to the Idler Shaft Assembly, Drive Sleeve Assembly and Quill Assembly.
Russ

Mark V completely upgraded to Mark 7
Mark V 520
All SPT's & 2 Power Stations
Model 10ER S/N R64000 first one I restored on bench w/ metal ends & retractable casters.
Has Speed Changer, 4E Jointer, Jig Saw with lamp, a complete set of original accessories & much more.
Model 10E's S/N's 1076 & 1077 oldest ones I have restored. Mark 2 S/N 85959 restored. Others to be restored.
HopefulSSer
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Re: Old shopsmith with a poorly replaced motor

Post by HopefulSSer »

chapmanruss wrote: Fri May 26, 2023 1:16 pm

_
Image

The Motor Pulley is made up of two Sheaves, one fixed (closest to the motor) and one floating. The idea of getting a used Headstock might be a good one for you. All the parts of a conventional headstock no matter when it was made can fit in any Headstock casting. Getting a later working Headstock will not only give you the correct motor it may be the 1-1/8 HP Motor. Besides that, you may get the Poly V Drive parts and Quill. A plus if you are having to change the motor you have. You can still keep the same look of your Mark 5 by putting the parts of the Headstock you buy in your current Headstock.
FWIW my 1960 Greenie (with Gilmer belt like yours) came with the GE motor. I recently upgraded it (by replacing just the motor) to a 1 1/8hp unit. It was a VERY worthwhile upgrade! I bought just the motor, but the suggestion to get a complete newer headstock is a good one.
Greenie SN 362819 (upgraded to 510), Bandsaw 106878, Jointer SS16466
joneill4
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Joined: Sun May 21, 2023 12:14 pm

Re: Old shopsmith with a poorly replaced motor

Post by joneill4 »

Thanks Russ! Do you happen to know the length and diameter of the exposed part of the motor shaft? I am still leaning towards buying a used headstock, but I may be able to work with what I have.
edma194
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Re: Old shopsmith with a poorly replaced motor

Post by edma194 »

joneill4 wrote: Fri May 26, 2023 2:51 pm Thanks Russ! Do you happen to know the length and diameter of the exposed part of the motor shaft? I am still leaning towards buying a used headstock, but I may be able to work with what I have.
joneil4, where are you located. I could give you a replacement motor and sheaves to work with since it's only a 3/4HP, but paying shipping for it would be kind of wasted money.
Ed from Rhode Island

510 PowerPro Double Tilt:Greenie PowerPro Drill Press:500 Sanding Shorty w/Belt&Strip Sanders
Super Sawsmith 2000:Scroll Saw w/Stand:Joint-Matic:Power Station:Power Stand:Bandsaw:Joiner:Jigsaw
1961 Goldie:1960 Sawsmith RAS:10ER
joneill4
Silver Member
Posts: 13
Joined: Sun May 21, 2023 12:14 pm

Re: Old shopsmith with a poorly replaced motor

Post by joneill4 »

Thanks Ed! I want to keep an eye out for a headstock for a week or two, but I may take you up on your offer. I'm guessing that when I tear into this thing, I'm going to find that I need more than I currently think I do.
I'm in Maryland by the way.
joneill4
Silver Member
Posts: 13
Joined: Sun May 21, 2023 12:14 pm

Re: Old shopsmith with a poorly replaced motor

Post by joneill4 »

First attempt to upload pictures. We'll see if this works. This is the hand I was dealt:
Attachments
Shopsmith motor2.jpg
Shopsmith motor2.jpg (321.1 KiB) Viewed 1371 times
Shopsmith motor ID tag.jpg
Shopsmith motor ID tag.jpg (217.45 KiB) Viewed 1371 times
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