Quilll judders when being extended

[router1969]

Hi all, I am wondering if anyone might be able to help. I am based in London, UK and I have owned a Shopsmith for a number of years now, upgrading to the Mark 7 Power Pro in 2016. I am now considering an upgrade to the Gen 2, when they finally get over the pond!
However, the problem I have is that when the machine is running and I extend the quill, the quill judders. Strangely, it is more noticeable when it is in vertical pillar drill mode than when it is in horizontal boring mode. I have not yet worked out whether the juddering is causing significant runout and whether it is, therefore, a significant problem or if it is normal.
The UK supplier did his best to resolve the issue, including swapping out the quill, but the quill problem is still there.
I recently had something of a disaster with the machine when I heard a loud ‘pop’ and the machine stopped with no power to it at all. This was diagnosed as being something in the Power Supply Assembly which had gone and resulted in having to replace the whole assembly, which was very expensive. The UK supplier thought this had been caused by a power surge and I am now using a power surge protection device at the socket. Whilst replacing the Power Supply Assembly, again he did his best to fix the juddering in the quill but has been unable to do so.
Does anyone have any idea what might be causing this problem and how it might be best resolved.
I would be very grateful for any assistance that anyone might be able to offer.
Many thanks and all the best, Richard

[JPG]

Fer starters, What is a "judder"???

[edma194]

'Judder' means 'vibrate' or 'shake' in that funny language they speak in England.

What kind of speeds are you running when this occurs? And this just doesn't sound like it's Power Pro related, not directly. Do you have the same problem with a 12" sanding disk without extending the quill? The PowerPro motor shouldn't do anything different when the quill is extended.

[DLB]

Judder: (especially of something mechanical) shake and vibrate rapidly and with force.
"the steering wheel juddered in his hand" (British)

That is not normal. My first suggestion is to measure runout: 1) at quill spindle, not extended 2) at quill spindle, quill fully extended 3) at the upper accessory drive spindle. I use the arbor of a sanding disc to measure radial and prefer a lathe faceplate for axial. If you don't have a dial indicator or equivalent a sanding disc at lowest speed and your eyeball is probably adequate.

Given that extending the quill is a factor and the quill itself evidently is not, I'd focus on the Drive and Ring. Possibly it isn't locked and is moving with the quill.(?) That seems unlikely though. You can check rotational free play by putting something like a sanding disc on the quill spindle and a lathe faceplate on the upper accessory drive and see if there is noticeable rotation of one relative to the other turning by hand. I don't have a definitive number, but almost any discernible free play is bad. In your case, I suppose you'd want to try this with the quill extended and retracted.

- David

[router1969]

Thank you, for your replies.
Sorry, I should have thought re: language differences.........
It happens at all speeds - it becomes slightly smoother at higher speeds but still very much there.
I shall try to measure the runabout, both radial and axial when I get back from work tomorrow.
I'm interested to hear that others think is not normal, I think it must be somehow quill related as it does not happen when the quill is fully retracted i.e. sawing / sanding etc.

[roy_okc]

I'll toss out a couple more questions to help us troubleshoot.

Does it judder when nothing is on the quill? Do you have anything small besides the drill chuck that you can attach, even a blade arbor with the blade off; does it judder with those kinds of things?

I had a similar situation where a lathe chuck would go in and out of a harmonic imbalance when I was turning something that was not supported between centers, such as a bowl or hollow form. I upgraded to a two-bearing quill and made other changes, which helped but never fully solved it; the problem may well have been looseness in the questionable quality 5/8" SS to 1" x 8 TPI adapter I was using. I eventually bought a dedicated lathe and that solved my problem, LOL.

[thunderbirdbat]

Thank you, for your replies.
Sorry, I should have thought re: language differences.........
It happens at all speeds - it becomes slightly smoother at higher speeds but still very much there.
I shall try to measure the runabout, both radial and axial when I get back from work tomorrow.
I'm interested to hear that others think is not normal, I think it must be somehow quill related as it does not happen when the quill is fully retracted i.e. sawing / sanding etc.

If it only happens when the quill is extended, I would also look at the quill feed parts and drive sleeve to quill mating parts. I believe one of them is a plastic piece that may be worn or have a manufacturing defect that could cause the problem as the quill is extended.

[chapmanruss]

router1969,

Since this hasn't happened yet, Welcome to the Shopsmith Forum.

I believe, as others do, that the problem may not be the Quill Assembly since you have tried a different Quill and the problem persists. It is hard to believe that two different Quills would have the same issue. Use the suggestions others have given trying other attachments on the Quill's Spindle to see if it still "judders." Beyond that check the Drive Sleeve and especially the plastic part called the Drive & Ring for excessive wear. The Drive & Ring is indicated by the arrow in the picture below. The Ring is the metal band just under the arrow that holds the Drive on the end of the Drive Sleave Assembly.

_

Poly V Drive.png (622.66 KiB) Viewed 940 times

.
If these suggestions do not resolve the problem, post again and we will continue to try to help correct this problem.