Quill Questions

[CreekWood]

I still have yet to yank the quill out of my 500 headstock to confirm that it is a single-bearing style...and I'm tempted to take a shot-gun approach to troubleshooting and repair by replacing both the quill and the drive ring (I think that's the right term for the plastic thing I see in pictures). I'm trying to eliminate .006" runout at the spindle. That amount of play becomes very noticeable at the tip of a drill bit.

The James Hopp YouTube video states that ShopSmith has produced 3 versions of the double-bearing quill, with the most recent having the ability to replace both front and back bearings, but the first generation having a pin that would prevent replacement of the rear bearing.

Can that pin be driven out?
Can the rear bearing on the second generation double-bearing quill be replaced?

Would you trust an eBay "lightly used" quill and drive ring to solve runout problems for an early 80's headstock that probably saw a lot of use before sitting idle for years?

[DLB]

To my knowledge the pinned two piece spindle two bearing quill is the second-ish generation. Depending on what sort of tools you have, it is actually the easiest to do bearing service on. Because yes, the pin is a standard roll pin (aka spring tension pin). The one piece spindle (current version) can also be serviced, but I recall it taking some imagination in my humble shop to find a way to remove/install the inner bearing. Easy if one has a bearing press though.

What I believe to be the earliest version has a two piece spindle that was bonded in some way after the inner bearing was installed. Otherwise pretty much like the pinned version. I've not heard of anyone successfully replacing the inner bearing. Ideally this is the one to stay away from. In the used market that is difficult.

The Drive and Ring can definitely add to or cause runout, especially in single bearing quills. And it is a wearing part, also especially with single bearing quills. It is not very expensive. But it is more work to replace.

I would not buy a used Drive and Ring by itself because it is a wearing part, but if it comes in a package with a quill and you're not paying much for it nothing wrong with trying it out. IIWM I would test the fit subjectively before installing. It should be slightly snug on the quill splines.

I personally prefer the pinned two-piece spindle two bearing quill. The barrel is heavier (thicker) and IIRC the outer bearing is nearer to the end of the spindle. The one-piece spindle does have larger bearings.

- David

[chapmanruss]

CreekWood,

This may help identify which Quill, single or double bearing, you have. September 1984 the Two Bearing Quill replaced Single Bearing Quill in headstocks Serial number 190000 & above. Note - online catalog has it November & history has it October, but I would go with the serial number as a guide. Now this does not take into account any Headstocks that may have been previously upgraded.

Used Quills come up for sale often. One reason can be someone upgrading to the DYI Power Pro Headstock and selling off the no longer used parts removed from the Headstock during the upgrade which includes the Quill. It may be a perfectly good Quill but as with all used sales, Buyer beware.

[CreekWood]

Thanks, David and Russ.
I poked the eBay button.
Would it be foolish to leave the drive untouched, but swap in the new(er) double-bearing quill AND the ring that's coming with it? Or is it worth taking an incremental approach by first swapping in the quill and see if runout improves significantly without touching the current drive and ring?

The belts in this headstock appear to me to have been replaced, although the SS may have sat unused for a very long time. My thought is to set the new(ish) drive in a drawer until time to replace belts. Maybe I'm just procrastinating a headstock teardown because it's unfamiliar territory.

[DLB]

Thanks, David and Russ.
I poked the eBay button.
Would it be foolish to leave the drive untouched, but swap in the new(er) double-bearing quill AND the ring that's coming with it? Or is it worth taking an incremental approach by first swapping in the quill and see if runout improves significantly without touching the current drive and ring?

The belts in this headstock appear to me to have been replaced, although the SS may have sat unused for a very long time. My thought is to set the new(ish) drive in a drawer until time to replace belts. Maybe I'm just procrastinating a headstock teardown because it's unfamiliar territory.

Scanning recent ebay sales, I'm guessing you bought a Quill, Drive Sleeve, and Drive and Ring.(?) Advertised as "barely used." If that is right, then IIWM I'd replace just the quill first because it only takes a few minutes and you can evaluate performance. A good two-bearing quill should not exhibit runout caused by a warn Drive and Ring. (But that is not true for a single bearing quill.) I had a high runout Drive Sleeve (SS replaced under warranty) that caused a warn Drive and Ring and the Quill still exhibited no runout problem. All of the runout was on the upper accessory drive shaft. In my case, the wobble resulted in Drive and Ring wear, but did not seem to impact the quill at all. So I don't think it would be foolish to replace just the quill if that gives you the results you are after. Just keep in mind that if your old quill was a single bearing and exhibited runout, some Drive and Ring wear is virtually certain even if the two-bearing quill masks it.

We can help you through a headstock tear down and rebuild when that time comes. Unfamiliar and not for everyone, but not that hard to do.

- David

[CreekWood]

David,
Are you watching over my shoulder while I browse eBay? Yeah, that was the one. I justified the price for myself by comparing overall cost of both assemblies. I didn't look into whether a ring can be purchased by itself, but guesstimated that just buying that and all the bearings, plus $.05/hour for my time would probably come close to the seller's asking price. Thanks for the advice.
In the meantime, the SS and every other flat surface in the shop is holding freshly polyurethaned parts of a project I started 20 years ago but didn't finish. Maybe the mailman will be slow enough for me to get this thing assembled and out of the way.

[chapmanruss]

As David said you can try just the Quill first which is an easy change. The picture below shows a Headstock and the arrow shows where the Special Set Screw is located that needs to be un-screwed partially to release the Quill. If it has never been done before it may be covered with putty from the factory. Turn the Quill Feed Handle until the Quill stops advancing. While still holding the Quill Feed Handle remove the old Quill and insert the new Quill keeping the groove in the top of the sleeve up. DO NOT let go of the Quill Feed Handle while changing Quills. Retract the Quill Feed Handle until the Quill is fully retracted which may require some turning of the Quill's Spindle to line up the splines into the Drive & Ring on the Drive Sleeve Assembly. Advance the special set screw back in and ensure it is positioning in the groove on top of the Quill's Sleeve. This keeps the Quill in proper alignment using a Full Dog Set Screw. Once lightly snugged down back it off a quarter to half turn to keep it from locking the Quill in place. Unlike normal set screws in use this Special Set Screw is a guide and not used to lock something in place.

_

1982 Headstock Quill Set Screw.jpg (134.81 KiB) Viewed 2184 times

[DLB]

Are you watching over my shoulder while I browse eBay? Yeah, that was the one.

Educated guess. If you scroll down a bit on the ebay search page you can filter on "Sold Items" rather than for sale items. I mostly use that for seeing what things are really selling for because many sellers set higher prices and it can be better to wait for something that is priced to sell.

I also noticed that the drive sleeve you bought is from an older unit, so likely the quill is too. The pulley on your drive sleeve is black, these are the older steel pulleys which were replaced with aluminum in later models. Russ might know when that change took place, my best guess is some time in the 90's. It is a trivial change, but gives some clue as to the age of the part. Likely points to a two-piece spindle on the quill, hopefully the one that is pinned as opposed to bonded.

- David

[CreekWood]

Argh! "Lightly used," but maybe heavily abused! Just got the parts in the mailbox and as soon as I pulled the quill out of the questionable packaging, a quick spin by hand showed a visible bend in the splined shaft. About .050" total variance per my measurement. The business end has less than.001. As far as the version of this double bearing shaft goes, the outermost bearing is about 4.25" back in the quill tube.

[CreekWood]

Could easily been bent in shipping. This is the packaging the seller sent it in. Note the splined end wrapped in one more (thin) layer of USPS Priority bubble wrap.