Gilmer Drive Sleeve Parts Help

[booman606]

Hey everyone,
This is my inaugural post on the forum. (Cue the fanfare) Seeing the size of the community around SS is very encouraging that I will be able to find help.
I am hoping to find the part circled in red. I have been unable to find this piece part anywhere.
I was in the process of restoring the power head. New drive belt, new gilmer belt, new control assembly, new control sheave, and $70 for two new timken ball bearings for the drive sleeve. Everything was going smoothly until the cast part chipped off where the setscrew fits while installing the new bearings. I am pretty sure that this was the worst part for this to happen to knowing the part evolution for this assembly. I don't think it is the clutch version of this part (I can't even find what SS calls this ''sleeve gear'') but I am sure someone here can clarify that and if it is the clutch version. My issue is that I have half of the cost of the poly drive system in parts for the gilmer system and would prefer to finish out the work as it is unless there is a cost effective solution I am unaware of.

I was hoping to find help tracking down this part or what course of action you guys think I should take.
I know I will have to remove my brand new bearing which is fine. I even considered removing my hopelessly broken ''gear'' and drilling and tapping a new hole for the setscrew in an undamaged section, but there are several potential problems with that. The vibration might be pretty bad. There are also a few small other cracks in the teeth so I'd really be pressing my luck if I have to go this route. I checked ebay with no luck so far but will keep checking.
Thanks in advance for any help anyone can provide.

Dan

[chapmanruss]

Dan,

Welcome to the Shopsmith Forum.

Thank you for including pictures because as they say, "a picture is worth a thousand words."

Your Drive Sleeve is the non-clutched one so I expect you have an early Greenie. It should be replaced. Good news is you can replace it with either the non-clutched like you currently have or the clutch version of the Gilmer Drive Sleeve Assembly. If you go with the clutch version, it won't be original, but the change was made to help reduce breaking belts.

Below is a picture of the clutched Gilmer Drive Sleeve Assembly for reference.

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Gilmer Clutch Type Drive Sleeve - arrow.jpg (53.35 KiB) Viewed 3745 times

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See where the set screw is on this clutched one compared to your non-clutched Gilmer Drive Sleeve Assembly. That is the easiest way to tell the difference when looking for one. I do see them for sale from time to time so be patient and you will find one.

Since it appears you likely have an early Mark 5 Greenie there is another problem that arose with the original Headstock design. This has to do with the Idler Shaft remaining in the correct position. In the parts drawing below from the April 1955, 3rd edition of the Owner's Guide you can see part number A3274 the Bearing Retainer (near the left edge of the drawing) that was added to keep the Idler Shaft from moving in and out of the mounting point of the Headstock Casting. Trying to keep it in place by over-tightening the bolt & nut around the Eccentric Sleeve (P/N A2832) will break the casting.
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Motor p26 8-55 .jpg (105.66 KiB) Viewed 3745 times

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These Bearing Retainers were made available to owners of the earlier Mark 5 Greenies made so you may already have them. They come in pairs and go in-between the Headstock Casting slot that the bolt goes through. In late 1955 a screw was added to the Headstock Casting as shown in the picture below to keep the Idler Shaft Assembly from being pushed out of position.

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Idler 1956 Greenie.jpg (79.39 KiB) Viewed 3741 times

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Later a screw was added to the Eccentric to keep the Assembly from being pulled in as shown below.

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inside belt cover.jpg (124.25 KiB) Viewed 3741 times

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Some owners have added these screws to their Headstocks. Sorry I do not have a picture showing the Bearing Retainers in position.

[DLB]

Another member is converting a Gilmer to Poly V, you might try contacting 'tfrayne' by PM. viewtopic.php?p=310702#p310702

- David

[edma194]

Hey everyone,
This is my inaugural post on the forum. (Cue the fanfare) Seeing the size of the community around SS is very encouraging that I will be able to find help.
I am hoping to find the part circled in red. I have been unable to find this piece part anywhere.

I can't look until later, but I have parts left from 2 Gilmer drive upgrades. I'll let you know what I can find. I do recommend an upgrade to the Poly-V belt if you can manage it but just this part could get you up and running for now.

ETA: I remembered exactly where one part was and got it out. Does this look right? I don't know where the plastic piece is though. You can have it for the cost of shipping and some time spent cleaning.

gilmer drive part.jpg (49.65 KiB) Viewed 3726 times

[chapmanruss]

The Gilmer Drive Sleeve Assembly Ed shows above is the later clutched version. It is missing one of the bearings. Since you are going to all the trouble of restoring this Drive Sleeve Assembly the bearings should be replaced anyway. The plastic part has no mechanical use for the Gilmer Drive Sleeve Assembly but if I recall correctly was for some noise dampening. It will work without it.

The picture below shows the parts of the clutched Gilmer Drive Sleeve Assembly.

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Gilmer Clutch Type Drive Sleeve Parts.jpg (89.21 KiB) Viewed 3700 times

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I show this because unlike the non-clutched Gilmer Drive Sleeve Assembly this one has several internal parts for the clutch. Taking it apart is not difficult, putting it back together is another story. When reassembling it the spring must be compressed and the clutch gears (internal and external like washers) properly placed to get the correct friction from the clutch. If it doesn't slip it would be like having a non-clutched Gilmer Drive Sleeve Assembly. If it slips too much, trying to work could stop the Spindle and what is attached to it.

[booman606]

To All, Thanks for the kind welcome and thoughtful replies. My thoughts of receiving help on here are all confirmed thanks to all of you!

Russ, Thank you for the detailed explanation of things. The setscrew hole is where the gear shattered. My old greenie does have the pair of bearing retainers you mentioned and are positioned in red (I borrowed your photo )

Retainer position.jpg (51.21 KiB) Viewed 3531 times

Regarding your compliment using pictures: Reading threads like this one is how I get through everything I do and the pages of posts wasted trying to explain through something a picture would shorten to 5 to 6 replies would have saved me a few years of my life, so I try when I can to be as detailed as possible.

I have two new Timken bearings for the drive sleeve and installing them was what got me into this mess so yes, whatever goes back in will have two new bearings. I really need to suck it up and buy that arbor press I have been blowing off. To be fair, I had no idea that Gilmer gear was so brittle.

Ed, Thank you so much for the kind offer and I will definitely take you up on your offer but had a few concerns to bring up.
1. Does the clutch stack have to come apart if I am replacing the bearings?
2. Are the drive sleeve splines on the one you are offering the same as the splines on my quill and fit?
David, thank you for the tip on your friend doing the conversion. I will reach out to find out if his old parts are the non-clutched one.

As for the poly-v mod: I am 95% the way there without doing the mod. My goal was to keep the build as true to the original old greenie as possible and not have to shelf the parts for the Gilmer system I just bought. Thanks to you guys it looks like I will be able to achieve this goal.

Thanks again so much for all of the help!
Dan

[chapmanruss]

Dan,

No problem "borrowing" my photo. I do it myself.

The Quill (splines) is the same for both the non-clutched and clutched Gilmer Drive Sleeve Assemblies. The Splines changed going from the Gilmer to the Poly V Drive.

It is not necessary to dis-assemble the clutch in the Drive Sleeve Assembly to replace the bearings. The reason for dis-assembling it would be to check and clean the parts if needed. If the assembly is in good condition and has the proper slip, then go ahead and use it. The concern is too much slippage or too little slippage which would be like your original non-clutched Gilmer Drive Sleeve Assembly. For the one Ed showed if you are comfortable using it without opening it up I would clean off the surface rust on the shaft ends and install the new bearings.

[edma194]

1. Does the clutch stack have to come apart if I am replacing the bearings?
2. Are the drive sleeve splines on the one you are offering the same as the splines on my quill and fit?

Russ answered those questions for you. I found the second one I have and it's cleaner on the interior end, but the aux spindle needs cleaning like the one in the photo above. No idea what condition the clutch is in. PM me with your address and I'll send it out.

Thanks for that info Russ. Your encyclopedic knowledge of Shopsmith part versions is a wonderful feature of this board.

[booman606]

Russ, Thank you for clarifying everything. Those were all the answers I was hoping for. I will definitely clean up the finished surfaces of the part before returning it to the machine. Thanks for all of the help.
Ed, PM sent. Thank you so much. I'll try to post an update once its all said and done. Thanks again to everyone for all of the help.

Before getting so familiar with my shopsmith, I had a clue it was very old because the prior owner kept a lot of documentation that covers the 60's up to maybe 1970's. I think there was one piece of literature from the 90's, but very cool.

Dan

[JPG]

It IS a product from the 50's.