Shopsmith 8" Jointer Idea???

[HopefulSSer]

Shopsmith can't compete head to head with the big names -- Jet, Powermatic, Rikon, Laguna, Sawstop et al selling standalone tools. Those are well-established brands well known to, for lack of a better term, "conventional woodworkers." We Shopsmith owners are "alternative woodworkers" -- we've got a "secret" tool that has some very real advantages over conventional standalone tools (footprint being one of them) but we're a very small community. A lot of "conventional woodworkers" -- it they even know what Shopsmith is -- think that a Shopsmith is a klugey toy machine that can't do real work. I've spoken to these people and know their prejudice against the brand and product. So if SS want to market stand-alone machines, why would conventional woodworkers buy SS over well-known, well-represented, well-marketed brands? Mostly, they won't. So SS need to capitalize on the things that set them apart from others. I'm not saying don't modernize -- absolutely do modernize! But focus on differentiation. Sell what sets SS apart from all the others.

Thanks. I thought Shopsmith was a well established brand, even before some of the big names you mentioned, so it seems like they should be jockeying for position since they predate some of them. There were big names like Delta, Craftsman, Powermatic, etc. (forgive me for not knowing all the other brands selling tablesaws back in the 1950's) competing with Shopsmith from the beginning, so what exactly has changed here? There was always competition. I've never considered myself an "alternative woodworker" even though the bulk of equipment in my shop is Shopsmith brand and I started out on my Dad's 510, even though he had a Sears TS before this. I agree on the small footprint and for sure that should be a selling point. Does this mean that Shopsmith shouldn't also try to compete on standalone tools? I don't know, it is an interesting question. I have encountered the "conventional woodworkers" that you mention and also why I stopped going to my local woodworking meetup club. Fine woodworking and Shopsmith are definitely considered to be mutually exclusive by a portion of the woodworking community which is unfortunate and NOT true. I don't have answers here, but I know Shopsmith needs to re-engage with the market and find their niche, whatever it is and focus their energies there. I also believe they should focus on customer retention. How many customers have started on Shopsmith, only to leave later? How many long term customers like myself are tired of not having options like an 8" jointer that can mount on my Mark V? I don't know the answer, but Shopsmith should try to answer these questions. Retaining existing customers should be their primary goal and secondary goals of bringing in new customers and increasing market share IMHO.

For this duration doesn't matter, market share and visibility does. And by that measure I'd argue SS is not well-established. Established, but on shaky footing for a lot of its existence. Shopsmith has been around a long time but what is their market presence now, today vs the ones I mentioned? Essentially zero. So as you say, they need not only find but also exploit their niche. They don't have the resources nor depth of engineering expertise go head to head with the big players -- at least not right now. Maybe down the road if they can build themselves up. But right now if you put a Jet, a Powermatic, and a hypothetical Shopsmith stand-alone jointer on a store sales floor, people will go for the names they know, not a name they've never heard of, or maybe have heard of and have a vague indistinct negative connotation about it. When spending that much money people will make the "safe" choice. Actually I think in a case like that where you've got the same tool from multiple manufacturers, Shopsmith (the company)'s longevity might even work against them. People might think "Geez, if they've been around that long, why don't I see more of them? They must not be any good else they'd be popular."

[RFGuy]

For this duration doesn't matter, market share and visibility does. And by that measure I'd argue SS is not well-established. Established, but on shaky footing for a lot of its existence. Shopsmith has been around a long time but what is their market presence now, today vs the ones I mentioned? Essentially zero. So as you say, they need not only find but also exploit their niche. They don't have the resources nor depth of engineering expertise go head to head with the big players -- at least not right now. Maybe down the road if they can build themselves up. But right now if you put a Jet, a Powermatic, and a hypothetical Shopsmith stand-alone jointer on a store sales floor, people will go for the names they know, not a name they've never heard of, or maybe have heard of and have a vague indistinct negative connotation about it. When spending that much money people will make the "safe" choice. Actually I think in a case like that where you've got the same tool from multiple manufacturers, Shopsmith (the company)'s longevity might even work against them. People might think "Geez, if they've been around that long, why don't I see more of them? They must not be any good else they'd be popular."

I can't say that I disagree with anything you mention here. What I wonder, and this is true of every tool maker in this space, how do you attract customers today in woodworking? It used to be an advertisement on the New Yankee Workshop or similar program, or print advertising in Wood, Popular Woodworking, etc. magazines. You would send out a print mail catalog to anyone that requested one. For a time, sponsorships on influencer YT channels worked and pulled in an audience, but with Google buying YT and changing their monetization algorithms, many of the woodworking YT creators that I know aren't creating content any more, or have sharply curtailed their content. I see A LOT more activity on IG and have to assume by extension FB as well. The few woodworking tool companies that I follow on IG and YT present an interesting cross section. Some are very social media savvy and I don't know if this translates directly into $ sales for them or not. Presumably it does. Some are really struggling to come into the 21st century. Last I checked, Shopsmith isn't even trying there, which is why I wonder what their new marketing effort will be under this new management. However, if someone is completely new to woodworking, how do you attract them to your tool brand? In that case, I don't think it matters because they won't know a Shopsmith from a Powermatic from a JET, etc., etc. Now, those who may know some of those names and are already a little into woodworking, the real question is what are they watching today that you can advertise on? If they are of an older generation, I guess it is FB, but if they are younger IG and if they are really young then TikTok. IF they are on TikTok, I don't think we actually want them operating power tools though!

[bainin]

There is a disconnect here. Shopsmith had sold a lot of tools over the years,
but there's only like 5-10 people on these forums who actively contribute.

Perhaps I'm wrong, but I equate forum contributors as representative of "active users" of the tools.

If true, market share is non-existent and many of those tools out there are in a state of disrepair
or gone.

b

[HopefulSSer]

There are a few more on FB who don't post here but yes I agree, SS has essentially no market presence. Part of that I'm sure is due to them abandoning advertising, store partners (Lowe's) etc years ago. No doubt that was necessary due to budgetary constraints but it's hard to sell products if no one knows you still exist! I hope Nick has a marketing strategy in place, and as I stated above I think that needs to focus on core products first....

[RFGuy]

There is a disconnect here. Shopsmith had sold a lot of tools over the years,
but there's only like 5-10 people on these forums who actively contribute.

Perhaps I'm wrong, but I equate forum contributors as representative of "active users" of the tools.

If true, market share is non-existent and many of those tools out there are in a state of disrepair
or gone.

b

Well, it is difficult to know. I think there are many Shopsmith users who still use their tools and are just not active posting online, but they either read this forum, or Shopsmith FB groups or watch YT vids. Similarly for other tool brands. I know Festool is VERY active on social, but I have to imagine maybe only 5-10% of people actually send up, i.e. ask a question, post a comment, like, etc. I have no idea what the stats are, but just my perception. Participating for many is absorbing what is being presented, I believe. Only a few actually have a discussion or send feedback to the manufacturer I expect. Personally, I check this forum when I take a break from the shop or other daily activities. For example, when I have a finish coat drying, there isn't much else I can do in my shop during that time. Still use my Shopsmith tools, just not as much as I would like, but that is probably true for many woodworkers.