Heritical Table Saw Question

[CreekWood]

This question may get me banished from the ShopSmith community, but...

If I were to look for a solid (rigid), large-top, dedicated table saw that has the maintainability and affordability of a ShopSmith Mark V, what should I look for?

I've thought about removing the legs from my Delta 36-725t1 and embedding it in a assembly-table-sized "cabinet" with drawers and storage space. I'd even consider cast-iron wings and a cast router wing. I'm sure all of that would cost less than a new cabinet saw, but other than a back-log of projects, the one thing that makes me pause is the proprietary motor assembly on the 36-725. A replacement motor would cost more than I paid for the saw!

I watched Scott's video about the SawSmith 2000. That machine looks interesting, but Scott seems to conclude that it's more of a collector item.

I'd like a combination of table saw, router table and assembly table with a solid, dead-flat surface about 6' x 4'. And I'd build a cabinet under it with rolling/adjustable casters so I could occassionally roll the beast around a bit.

I've watched a couple of Unisaw restoration videos on 50 year old saws, and I wonder if the top, motor and arbor assembly could be dropped into a plywood cabinet. Are there other "vintage" table saws that basically last forever with simple maintenance of bearings? At what point did electric motors become standard in their mounting options? (or at what point did manufacturers throw away maintainability by using proprietary parts?)

[algale]

I know what I'd buy if space and money were no object: a cast iron top SawStop "Professional Cabinet Saw" with overhead dust collection, router table, 52" rip fence, with one of their sliding cross cut table.

Commencing countdown to flame war about patents and nanny state stuff....3...2...1... blast off!

[CreekWood]

Yes, I had to quickly wipe the drool off one of those at the local hardwood and import lumber stores before the salesman noticed. Don't think I can afford one anytime soon. I also don't think I can justify the lack of any ROI--who am I kidding...I don't sell anything, so my hobby is a just a hole to throw money into.

So how does a sliding table compare to a SawSmith sliding arbor? In all honesty, my sliding chopsaw rarely gets used unless I've dragged it out to to help a friend or family member build a house or a shed. It's just not accurate enough for anything precision.

[Ed in Tampa]

Saw smith is anything but accurate! The blade/slide unit wiggles at least a 1/8 and inch from what I remember. That memory is about 35 years old. I looked the saw considered buying it ( I was up to my neck in Shopsmith stuff at the time) but walked away as I concluded I could do a more accurate job with a hand held circular saw. Enough said!

If you miter saw isn’t accurate enough for you it is either a cheap knock off or it fell off a truck. Most are more accurate than table saws. But you have to spend money to buy an accurate blade.

If I was still looking for a tablesaw I would consider the Delta you mentioned. Yes I know it is not a “real” table saw. Bull what most people call table saws are production saws not hobbiest saws. Most are super overkill plus a huge money outlay for most hobbiest. The Delta saw from what I can see is an excellent saw for “normal” home shop use.

Personally I have never seen a worn out saw contractor size or above. I have seen many neglected and rusted to pieces but before they were left to rot their motor bearings, saw arbor were all good. And I have seen contractor saws that were used in production type situations 24 7 for years and years that are still running and producing beautiful work.

Frankly I lean more to a good track saw to complement my ShopSmith. But I am sure that 99% of woodworking forum readers have been convinced by the “experts” that they must have a $3000-$4000 tablesaw before they can produce any quality work. Owners of underused, rusted and neglected Unisaw have convinced them of that.

[CreekWood]

Ed, thank you for your advice. You're giving a bit more hope that the effort to build a multifunction cabinet around the Delta 36-725 might not be a waste of effort.

Acquiring a ShopSmith has opened my perspective to the world of tool maintenance. Before I've always held the discard-and-replace mentality towards power tools. I'd never considered that a lot of tools' wear components are standard, easily available parts.

[RFGuy]

This question may get me banished from the ShopSmith community, but...

Be careful what you wish for...I should know!!!

I've thought about removing the legs from my Delta 36-725t1 and embedding it in a assembly-table-sized "cabinet" with drawers and storage space. I'd even consider cast-iron wings and a cast router wing. I'm sure all of that would cost less than a new cabinet saw, but other than a back-log of projects, the one thing that makes me pause is the proprietary motor assembly on the 36-725. A replacement motor would cost more than I paid for the saw!

Only coming out of lurker mode for this post, because a forum regular asked me to return to the forum recently and because I think I can help on this specific thread. Playing the "What If?" game, I have often thought about what I might do differently if I never had my Mark V. Having watched too many YT woodworking videos, I really like the concept of having a solid TS (high end would be a cabinet TS, but it doesn't have to be), but with the Incra rails and positioner and a router wing dropped in. One of the YT woodworkers that I admire is Blake Weber and below is a pic of his DeWalt DW746 table saw. I believe this saw is very similar to the Delta 36-725. I believe these are, or were, called "hybrid" tablesaws. Basically the manufacturers took their best contractor grade tablesaws and put a solid cast iron table of good size on them and beefy legs to make them stationary saws. So, not quite a full cabinet TS, but perhaps a notch just below them. Posting this because I like what Blake did with the router wing, his own custom dust collection box on it, the Incra rails and of course the Incra setup. The Incra LS positioner can be used both for the TS and for the router in this kind of setup, i.e. dual purpose. The SawStop dust collecting sawguard is nice as well. The difference of what you are looking for is in making it one solid cabinet. Unless the legs on the Delta 36-725 are weak, I would consider something similar to Blake's setup and have rolling cabinets perhaps that can be nestled underneath. That way if you ever have to replace the Delta 36-725 due to it breaking, too expensive a repair because of that motor, etc. that you just swap whatever you added as features to the TS and simply move them to a new one. Then hopefully the cabinets will fit under the new one. Dedicating an entire cabinet to a custom build to fit the Delta 36-725 may come back to bite you later, should it finally break one day. IF yours has seen better days, perhaps consider the DeWalt DW746 if you can find one locally, or look for similar hybrid type tablesaws. On the used market, they should be inexpensive and I believe several manufacturers competed in this market for a while. Maybe some still do. Hope this helps.

IF the Delta 36-725 has add-on cast iron wings then they might make sense to bolt on. Other than this, wondering why you are considering a cast iron router wing to add instead of a good quality laminate router work surface? I see those cast iron router tables on the market and they seem like overkill to me and I don't think they sell very many of them.

With regard to assembly table, if your shop is large enough, what I would suggest is to build a separate assembly table and make it an outfeed table for your TS. Almost every YT woodworker has a SawStop cabinet TS and have built assembly tables behind it to perform the outfeed function. Lots of examples, but if you would like inspiration let me know and I will post some pictures. Would love to see what you create with it, so please post pics if you give it a go. Good luck. Going back to lurker only mode again now since most of the forum doesn't want me here.

DeWalt_DW746.jpg (234.74 KiB) Viewed 75149 times

[Ed in Tampa]

This question may get me banished from the ShopSmith community, but...

Be careful what you wish for...I should know!!! Going back to lurker only mode again now since most of the forum doesn't want me here.

Why do you say the forum does not want you here? I have always enjoyed your comments. Perhaps the person or persons that does not want you here should be the ones to go instead.
Stick around!

[adrianpglover]

When I first got into woodworking, a coworker loaned me an early 80's MKV. It worked okay for my uses, but I definitely didn't like putting even half sheets of plywood up that high to cut them on the TS mode. I was also working out of one half of a 2 car garage, so when it came to purchasing my first tools I went for a Grizzly G1023RLWX. It's a nice TS and is dead flat, or flat enough for my needs. I've only had a few things go wrong with it, namely the gas strut for lifting the motor went out over a period of 8-9 years or so. When you get something from Grizzly, you need to be aware that you'll spend a bit more time getting everything initially aligned, cleaned up, and ready to go. If I were to do it again, I wouldn't get the model with the "built-in" router table hole, as it's just a hole and place to mount your router, but rather go for the optional cast iron wing that had the hole for the drop in router lift. I don't know if they still make that option, but I think it'd be worth going for it.

The reason I mention Grizzly is that in my experience, their tools are well built for the hobbyist, but aren't as expensive as some of the higher end brands. When looking through the designs of these TS and other cabinet base TSs at the time I was purchasing this one, it looked like most brands used the same design and maybe even have interchangeable parts. (Note that at the time I was looking at TSs, Sears was still a company and they had a cabinet base TS in the store under the Craftsman name with a granite table top.) So, I wouldn't discount them out of hand. I do still use quite a few Delta tools, including my router. My view of Delta though is that most of their tools are designed/marketed toward the professional builder, not necessarily the woodworker or hobbyist, hence most of their tools are portable versions.

[JPG]

This question may get me banished from the ShopSmith community, but...

Be careful what you wish for...I should know!!! Going back to lurker only mode again now since most of the forum doesn't want me here.

Why do you say the forum does not want you here? I have always enjoyed your comments. Perhaps the person or persons that does not want you here should be the ones to go instead.
Stick around!

+1

Some folks are simply lazy and do not like reading detailed 'stuff'.

Let those sleeping pups lie!;>}

[edma194]

Saw smith is anything but accurate! The blade/slide unit wiggles at least a 1/8 and inch from what I remember.

I don't know what kind of problems there were with the initial run of Sawsmith 2000 saws but there is no blade wiggle on either of my 2 later versions of the saw. Scott already addressed someone who misinterpreted his video where he points out the blade does not maintain alignment at the top and bottom of the blade height adjustment. Clearly a problem that has to be known and avoided, but there is no blade wiggle.

CreekWood, since you seem willing to build a cabinet around your saw I'm don't understand why you're not planning to use the contractor saw you have. Laminate some MDF, plywood, and a Formica type top, and cut out a hole so it fits over your current saw.