Shopsmith Forums

A while back we had a discussion on screws and drills to drill pilot holes.
I don't know how many of you have seen it but the latest edition of Wood Magazine (I just got mine yesterday) has a very good article (very brief) on screws.

In the article they compare the old style screw with the new and make recommendations about screw type, head configuration, driver type and pilot drills. They also have a chart or table specifing what pilot drill and driver bit to with what screw size.

Apparently I had some real misconceptions on screw construction and what was causing the problems I was seeing. From reading the article I'm now convinced the problem I'm experiencing isn't screw geometry but rather the quality of the screw I was using. I was blaming the failures and faults on screw construction or geometry and from what I see in the article today's screws should be superior to yesterday's screws geometry wise.

MY conclusion I will probably switch over to square drive, higher quality screws along with using NON tapered pilot hole drill bits. In other words no more blister pack no-name screws from the big box stores. I may even give Mcfeely's a try.

My apologizes to all that tried to shed light on my problem but whose advice I rejected as not really understanding the problem.

I have used McFeely for a number of years. Excellent quality. Evidently there has been a change in ownership or just a relocation. They are now in WI and not VA. Request their catalog--excellent reference source for a variety of fasteners. Web--www.mcfeelys.com phone--800-443-7937.

Ed in Tampa wrote:A while back we had a discussion on screws and drills to drill pilot holes.
I don't know how many of you have seen it but the latest edition of Wood Magazine (I just got mine yesterday) has a very good article (very brief) on screws.

In the article they compare the old style screw with the new and make recommendations about screw type, head configuration, driver type and pilot drills. They also have a chart or table specifing what pilot drill and driver bit to with what screw size.

Apparently I had some real misconceptions on screw construction and what was causing the problems I was seeing. From reading the article I'm now convinced the problem I'm experiencing isn't screw geometry but rather the quality of the screw I was using. I was blaming the failures and faults on screw construction or geometry and from what I see in the article today's screws should be superior to yesterday's screws geometry wise.

MY conclusion I will probably switch over to square drive, higher quality screws along with using NON tapered pilot hole drill bits. In other words no more blister pack no-name screws from the big box stores. I may even give Mcfeely's a try.

My apologizes to all that tried to shed light on my problem but whose advice I rejected as not really understanding the problem.

Both the old AND the new have their unique set of advantages and disadvantages. Throughout the previous discussion I had the nagging question in the back of my 'head' as to why the world seems to have abandoned the 'historic wood screw'.

Perhaps you could share this new found enlightenment you have acquired(details) with those of us who do NOT receive WOOD magazine.

JPG40504 wrote:Both the old AND the new have their unique set of advantages and disadvantages. Throughout the previous discussion I had the nagging question in the back of my 'head' as to why the world seems to have abandoned the 'historic wood screw'.

Perhaps you could share this new found enlightenment you have acquired(details) with those of us who do NOT receive WOOD magazine.

JPG40504
Sorry but that question was not addressed by the article.

What I did learn was the old screw which I believe to be cut screws have a shoulder that was the same diameter as the threads, the shank of the screw actually reduces in size as it gets closer to the tip. The threads themselves are actually deeper at the tip than at shoulder.

On today's screw the shank size remains the same. The shoulder is the same sizes as shank at the threads. The thread depth remain constant throughout the length of the screw making the shank size constant.

From the article they list the head configurations that offer the least problems down to the most prone to problem in three groups. Square and Torx/Star are the least, Pozidrive and Square/Phillips are next and Phillips and slotted are last or most troublesome.

Is the new better???? I don't know but I know they are different and I have two choices; bitch about the change or find what now works for me.

So I have decided my past problems must be a combination of things. One since I'm experiencing a high incident of breakage which no one else seems to have it must be the quality of the screws I'm using. Second since I felt I had problems with the shoulder and now find the shoulder and shank are the same diameter on the new screws it must be my pilot bits problem. Third since I never was able to drive a phillips head screws with constant success instead of blaming my technique I'm simply switching to square drive where I never had a problem.

I guess that is one reason I like kreg screws so well. First I use their drill to predrill, I have never had one break, and I have never had a bit slip while driving the screw home. Plus I believe they are quality made. But they are for a specific application so I now have to find something that has basically the same qualities in various configurations for various applications. Mcfeely, Highland Hardware, Hartville Hardware and Lee Valley will be where I start my search.

Do I still like the old what I call cut screws? Yes I sure do but like dinosaurs they are real hard find and when you do all you get is bones.

[quote="Ed in Tampa"]JPG40504
Sorry but that question was not addressed by the article.

What I did learn was the old screw which I believe to be cut screws have a shoulder that was the same diameter as the threads, the shank of the screw actually reduces in size as it gets closer to the tip. The threads themselves are actually deeper at the tip than at shoulder.

On today's screw the shank size remains the same. The shoulder is the same sizes as shank at the threads. The thread depth remain constant throughout the length of the screw making the shank size constant.

From the article they list the head configurations that offer the least problems down to the most prone to problem in three groups. Square and Torx/Star are the least, Pozidrive and Square/Phillips are next and Phillips and slotted are last or most troublesome.

Is the new better???? I don't know but I know they are different and I have two choices]

Thank You for this great elaboration. Let me know how the bullet tastes.

Ed in Tampa wrote: I guess that is one reason I like kreg screws so well. First I use their drill to predrill, I have never had one break, and I have never had a bit slip while driving the screw home. Plus I believe they are quality made. But they are for a specific application so I now have to find something that has basically the same qualities in various configurations for various applications. Mcfeely, Highland Hardware, Hartville Hardware and Lee Valley will be where I start my search.

Ed, McFeely has a special where you get 25 screws of 25 different types for $25. I think they also have a special $1 shipping on any order. Good way to try their product.

lv2wdwrk wrote:Ed, McFeely has a special where you get 25 screws of 25 different types for $25. I think they also have a special $1 shipping on any order. Good way to try their product.

This is one of those story problems that I hated so much while in school. If the man paid $25 for 25ea of 25 different screws types., how much did he pay for each screw.

It doesn't sound like a real big special to me. That's $.04/screw which seems costly. Maybe that is because I am still working out of a bulk purchase that I made about ten years ago.

beeg wrote:Ah Dusty, wouldn't those screws cost ya $1.04 each?

Well, I don't think so. But if it did that sure as heck would be expensive and certainly would not qualify as a special. At least not for me.

See, this is what I always hated about story problems.

If two trains left the station at the same time, traveling in opposite directions but at different speeds, after 13 1/2 minutes.......

Bob, nope as Dusty says they will cost you .04 each. But to me that doesn't sound to bad. I was pricing screws a couple weeks ago, they were more than this......