Hi all,
The company that I worked for recently downsized and put me out to pasture. I now have time to play with my tools which I really haven't had an opportunity to enjoy for a long time. With the unemployment rate in Rhode Island I may reach retirement age before I find a job.
That said, my brother passed away 11 years ago and being his only family, I inherited his almost brand new Shopsmith, including just about every toy he could lay his hands on. I also got his lumber hoard which it appears was mostly white oak. I have no idea what he planned but I went on a hunt of the project plans here and decided to try the dry sink.
I opted to join the necessary boards to get the widths I needed for a number of parts with biscuits as I still haven't gotten to figure out boring for the dowel holes and my drill press, while a floor model could only end drill the shortest pieces of the face frame.
Now the trouble begins. The boards didn't match flush everywhere, there was a lip in places that could have been 1/64". My first thought, since the joined pieces were more than the width of the thickness planer was to use a block plane to take the lips flush before sanding. Mistake #1. The boards were not all straight grained, which looks pretty, but when you hit a spot where the grain switched direction, the plane dug in.
I quickly decided to change tactics and so I went for the hand held belt sander. Mistake #2. This leveled the joints but it also scored the boards deeply. Since I only did this with 2 glued pieces I figured that I could work them out with my palm sander.
This is what I probably should have started with. However, 3 days into sanding these 2 pieces and I still haven gotten the scratches out. I have started with 60 grit sand paper and while almost everything is glass smooth I am still not rid of the scoring. It can't be .002" deep, I can't feel it but I can see it in cross light and I know they'll stick out like a sore thumb when I put any kind of finish on the wood.
Any suggestions?
By the way, when I registered for the forum it didn't say that your username had to be one word, so I used "Big Ed" but the forum choose to address me as "Big", go figure...
Finishing White Oak
Moderators: HopefulSSer, admin
Hi and Welcome, Big Ed!
I don't know how large your joined pieces are. If you don't have a planer big enough, you could run the joined pieces under the Shopsmith using a Wager Safe-T-Planer in drill-press mode. See for example:
http://www.songofthegreatlakes.com/ssproject3.htm
Good luck!
I don't know how large your joined pieces are. If you don't have a planer big enough, you could run the joined pieces under the Shopsmith using a Wager Safe-T-Planer in drill-press mode. See for example:
http://www.songofthegreatlakes.com/ssproject3.htm
Good luck!
Chris
Welcome Big Ed.
Can ya put that scratched side to the inside of the project? Now either the two boards joined were knot the same thickness, or maybe had some cup:eek: to it.
Can ya put that scratched side to the inside of the project? Now either the two boards joined were knot the same thickness, or maybe had some cup:eek: to it.
SS 500(09/1980), DC3300, jointer, bandsaw, belt sander, Strip Sander, drum sanders,molder, dado, biscuit joiner, universal lathe tool rest, Oneway talon chuck, router bits & chucks and a De Walt 735 planer,a #5,#6, block planes. ALL in a 100 square foot shop.
.
.
Bob
.
.
Bob
BigEd,
Sorry to hear about the job. I've been there and done that. I hope you find something that you like!
I think the best option is that if there is a Conical Disc Sander in what you inherited from your brother, you may be able to use it as a thinkness sander as shown in Sawdust Session 14.
http://www.shopsmithacademy.com/SS_Arch ... _Index.htm
In the Power Tool Woodworking for Everyone (PTWFE) book, fourth edition, on page 228 it shows that you can make a drum sander to use between the lathe centers as a thinkness sander, although I don't know if anyone has tried that.
There has been a lot of discussion in the forum about if it is even necessay to use dowels or biscuits for edge joining boards with the quality of glues that are available today. If you want to use dowels, one of the greatest advantages of the ShopSmith is that it is an excellent horizontal boring machine. Just think of it as a drill press lying on it's side. In one of the brief 'demo' videos at the Shopsmith home page they demonstrate boring dowel holes in the edge of a board.
Hope I helped!
Sincerely,
Ron
Sorry to hear about the job. I've been there and done that. I hope you find something that you like!
I think the best option is that if there is a Conical Disc Sander in what you inherited from your brother, you may be able to use it as a thinkness sander as shown in Sawdust Session 14.
http://www.shopsmithacademy.com/SS_Arch ... _Index.htm
In the Power Tool Woodworking for Everyone (PTWFE) book, fourth edition, on page 228 it shows that you can make a drum sander to use between the lathe centers as a thinkness sander, although I don't know if anyone has tried that.
There has been a lot of discussion in the forum about if it is even necessay to use dowels or biscuits for edge joining boards with the quality of glues that are available today. If you want to use dowels, one of the greatest advantages of the ShopSmith is that it is an excellent horizontal boring machine. Just think of it as a drill press lying on it's side. In one of the brief 'demo' videos at the Shopsmith home page they demonstrate boring dowel holes in the edge of a board.
Hope I helped!
Sincerely,
Ron
Hi there Big Ed! Welcome to the forum! Sorry to read about your white oak problem.
I too have had issues in thickness planing boards that are too wide. The best way I've figured out to handle that chore is to rip saw the wider board (that I just glued together to make it that wide) into narrower pieces that will fit into the planer. After planing, re-join the sawed off pieces.
You'll not be free of issues if you use that method. Because of the changing grain (and large rays cells) your planer knives MUST be very sharp. Also you will need to take ONLY VERY SMALL amounts in each pass through the planer. About a 32nd of an inch sounds about right. Hopefully, you can avoid snipe with your planer.
After getting the boards down to a near smooth condition, you can sand or scrape to final face.
Hope your boards don't come out too thin to use where you wanted to put them.
Sorry, I don't understand your issue with your drill press. Remember - Your Shopsmith will work as both a vertical or a horizontal drill press.
I too have had issues in thickness planing boards that are too wide. The best way I've figured out to handle that chore is to rip saw the wider board (that I just glued together to make it that wide) into narrower pieces that will fit into the planer. After planing, re-join the sawed off pieces.
You'll not be free of issues if you use that method. Because of the changing grain (and large rays cells) your planer knives MUST be very sharp. Also you will need to take ONLY VERY SMALL amounts in each pass through the planer. About a 32nd of an inch sounds about right. Hopefully, you can avoid snipe with your planer.
After getting the boards down to a near smooth condition, you can sand or scrape to final face.
Hope your boards don't come out too thin to use where you wanted to put them.
Sorry, I don't understand your issue with your drill press. Remember - Your Shopsmith will work as both a vertical or a horizontal drill press.
Octogenarian's have an earned right to be a curmudgeon.
Chuck in Lancaster, CA
Chuck in Lancaster, CA
-
mbcabinetmaker
- Platinum Member
- Posts: 1627
- Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 6:18 am
- Location: Greer SC
Welcome to the forum Big Ed.
It is best to drill dowel holes on the Shopsmith in the horizontal position and use a vice grip pad clamp to hold it down as close the the contact point as possible. As for your scratch problem I would use a hand held belt sander with 100 grit followed by 120 and then random orbit with 100/120/150. When using the belt sander start off by sanding across the grain on the high spots. This will take some practice but removes material fast and it is easier to flatten a board with out dipping. After it is flat to your satisfaction switch to sanding with the grain and continue until all scratch patterns are removed. Oak really shows cross grain sanding so take your time here. After the belt sanding start with 100 grit on a random orbit sander. After the 100 wet the wood with a rag. The objective is to dampen the board surface totally but do not leave standing water as it could turn the oak black. Lean the board upright to dry. Follow by sanding with 120 grit until you think it is good enough for finishing. After that step put on a new 150 disc and sand with only the weight of the sander. Move the sander slowly here, this step is to take out any swirl marks left by the previous random orbit sanding.
Sanding correctly takes time and practice. It cannot be rushed and have a good outcome. I once read a comment by a lady woodworker in an interview. She was ask if she had any advice of other women interested in woodworking. Her reply was Learn to love to sand, you'll be doing a lot of it.
Glad to have you join
Mark
It is best to drill dowel holes on the Shopsmith in the horizontal position and use a vice grip pad clamp to hold it down as close the the contact point as possible. As for your scratch problem I would use a hand held belt sander with 100 grit followed by 120 and then random orbit with 100/120/150. When using the belt sander start off by sanding across the grain on the high spots. This will take some practice but removes material fast and it is easier to flatten a board with out dipping. After it is flat to your satisfaction switch to sanding with the grain and continue until all scratch patterns are removed. Oak really shows cross grain sanding so take your time here. After the belt sanding start with 100 grit on a random orbit sander. After the 100 wet the wood with a rag. The objective is to dampen the board surface totally but do not leave standing water as it could turn the oak black. Lean the board upright to dry. Follow by sanding with 120 grit until you think it is good enough for finishing. After that step put on a new 150 disc and sand with only the weight of the sander. Move the sander slowly here, this step is to take out any swirl marks left by the previous random orbit sanding.
Sanding correctly takes time and practice. It cannot be rushed and have a good outcome. I once read a comment by a lady woodworker in an interview. She was ask if she had any advice of other women interested in woodworking. Her reply was Learn to love to sand, you'll be doing a lot of it.
Glad to have you join
Mark
Serendipity...
Thanks to all who answered my cry for help.
To answer Charlese first, I wasn't using the Mark V to drill the dowel holes. I have a 15" Rockwell floor stand drill press. Even lowering the table all the way down, I could only get the shortest pieces of the face frame under the drill spindle. I'm working my way up to figuring out the tables on the Shopsmith.
For the same reason, I'm not prepared to try the conical disc sander suggestion from Ron. I did watch the video and this looks promising but hopefully, I'll better plan next time and won't find myself in this situation.
The Serendipity comes from a link Chris supplied to Woodworking Magazine which suggested a finishing process that I will definitely try. Wet rubbing the finish. While I was on that page there was a link to a video showing scraping. WOW !!! I tried that on some of the other parts and it was a thing of beauty. It worked great with the Oak.
Mark, I cringe to think of getting the belt sander anywhere near the work again, this is why I have the scratches that I am having such a hard time ridding myself of. Fortunately, I only used it on 2 pieces. unfortunately they were 12 3/4" wide.
I don't own a random orbital sander as I really haven't bought any finishing equipment in quite a long time. I have hopes that Father's Day may correct that and I hope it's my son-in-law who gets it, my wife would probably try to find one in the tool aisle of the Super Market.
Again, thanks to all.
"BigEd" (one word)
To answer Charlese first, I wasn't using the Mark V to drill the dowel holes. I have a 15" Rockwell floor stand drill press. Even lowering the table all the way down, I could only get the shortest pieces of the face frame under the drill spindle. I'm working my way up to figuring out the tables on the Shopsmith.
For the same reason, I'm not prepared to try the conical disc sander suggestion from Ron. I did watch the video and this looks promising but hopefully, I'll better plan next time and won't find myself in this situation.
The Serendipity comes from a link Chris supplied to Woodworking Magazine which suggested a finishing process that I will definitely try. Wet rubbing the finish. While I was on that page there was a link to a video showing scraping. WOW !!! I tried that on some of the other parts and it was a thing of beauty. It worked great with the Oak.
Mark, I cringe to think of getting the belt sander anywhere near the work again, this is why I have the scratches that I am having such a hard time ridding myself of. Fortunately, I only used it on 2 pieces. unfortunately they were 12 3/4" wide.
I don't own a random orbital sander as I really haven't bought any finishing equipment in quite a long time. I have hopes that Father's Day may correct that and I hope it's my son-in-law who gets it, my wife would probably try to find one in the tool aisle of the Super Market.
Again, thanks to all.
"BigEd" (one word)
Your story brought back memories of a desk I built with my son for his room many years ago. He was about 18 at the time and had some wood skills. I let him use the belt sander of the desk top seams. The end result never was level across the length. I have two belt sanders in the shop, and for the most part they are a tool of last resort. Glad you came up with a solution.
Gary Kalyn
Kalynzoo Productions
Woodworking
Porter Ranch/Northridge
Los Angeles, CA
Kalynzoo Productions
Woodworking
Porter Ranch/Northridge
Los Angeles, CA
Big Ed
Welcome to the forum. I just recently made a twin bed frame for my grandson and the SS in the horizontal boring mode was a real answer to my situation having to drill holes for dowels in a board 39" long. I am attaching a link to the Power Tool Woodworking for Everyone book with the chapter on horizontal boring. It will help you figuring out how to put your tables and axillary tables to give support for long work pieces. This book is a great tool for SS owners. Hope this helps you figure out your SS.
http://www.shopsmith.com/academy/horzbordowel/index.htm
Welcome to the forum. I just recently made a twin bed frame for my grandson and the SS in the horizontal boring mode was a real answer to my situation having to drill holes for dowels in a board 39" long. I am attaching a link to the Power Tool Woodworking for Everyone book with the chapter on horizontal boring. It will help you figuring out how to put your tables and axillary tables to give support for long work pieces. This book is a great tool for SS owners. Hope this helps you figure out your SS.
http://www.shopsmith.com/academy/horzbordowel/index.htm
Ron from Lewisburg, TN
BigEd wrote:Hi all,
By the way, when I registered for the forum it didn't say that your username had to be one word, so I used "Big Ed" but the forum choose to address me as "Big", go figure...
It looks like you have fit the "Extreme" category to get your username changed by Admin as it now reads "BigEd" - congratulations!!!...
By the way, welcome to the forum and the wonderful world of Shopsmith.
Don - W3DRM - Minden, Nevada --- SS 510 (new 2005), Bandsaw, Jointer, Conical & Standard sanding disks, & DC3300
Carson Valley Weather - http://www.carsonvalleyweather.com
Carson Valley Weather - http://www.carsonvalleyweather.com