Shopsmith Forums

In one of the other threads someone mentioned the dangerous nature of Radial Arm Saws (RAS). I never thought RAS's as being any more dangerous than any other saw. Therefore I was wondering if RAS's don't get bad publicity much like Shopsmiths. People that for one reason or another have a bone to pick, people that have never used one but repeat what they have heard others say and people that think by putting down the machine it elevates them.

To me a RAS seems safer than a table saw because the blade is always easily seen as is the cut and you can keep you hands and other things out of it path.
I know many times I think I have my hands positioned well away from the blade on the table saw but get the feeling I need a push stick to later find out my fingers were closer than I imagined.

I think RAS are like the Overhead Pin Router and Router Table. One of comments you hear most abou the OPR is you can see the cut and make any corrections quickly.

RAS do have a habit of climb cutting that is when the blade climbs up the cut and drags itself forward deeper into the cut and at the operator. While scarey if the hands are properly positioned there is little danger and the problem can almost be totally eliminated with neg Rake angle blade and thin Kerf blade. It can be totally eliminated if the operator expects it and grasps the carriage firm enough to not let it happen.

Others talk about the accuracy of the RAS and yes there is problems but no more than a table saw as displayed by the use of cross cut tables, slidding tables, high dollar OEM miter gauges, Wixey electronic angle gauges and all the other add-ons that some people feel you must have to make accurate cuts on a table saw.

I like my RAS, it was my first power saw. I never had a accident on it that caused me any bodily injury. To me a RAS is multipurpose. It is an excellent crosscut saw, excellent dado saw, it also drum sands, thickness planes, horizontal bores and is an excellent metalic cut off saw. There was an attachment to make it a thickness planer but I think the company now only sales standalone thickness sanders.

People cite rip cutting on a RAS and while I will agree ripping is not a RAS's forte it can be accurately and safetly done on a RAS. You have to pay attention to feed direction just like you do on a tablesaw. Imagine doing a rip cut on the table saw feeding wood from the back end.

People complain about dust collection but I have found after market dust hoods that for me do a better job than most dust collection on a table saws.

Kickback on a RAS is always away from the operator so you don't have to worry about a board being caught on the blade and hurled at you.

So I'm not sure I know why many people are scared of RAS.

Blade and accessory change overs are easier on a RAS. Remove the blade guard and you have total access for making blade changes.

I'm don't understand with all the versatility and capability of a RAS why everyone avoids them.

Great post! Interestingly I was thinking this past weekend how dust collection on the RAS, while not great, is better that when using the SS as a table saw.

My RAS and SS are my two newest tools, both great craigs list bargains. Naturally, both are potentially dangerous just like any power tool if not used properly.

Here's a recent long thread on the subject that is a good read: http://lumberjocks.com/topics/9236

I agree with you that the people who complain most about them seem to be the ones that don't use them, much like ShopSmith non-users!

THanks:
JC

Ed: How do you do horizontal boring on the RAS? Thx

RAS are only dangerous if the operator is careless. I have a Powerkraft RAS, sold by Montgomery Ward Stores, that I purchased over 30 years ago. I have built a couple garages and a barn with this old faithful tool. Have also built a lot of smaller projects with it and just would not want to be without it. I have done all types of sawing with it and have found it to be very useful even for ripping boards. You just have to pay attention to what you and the saw are doing together.

So my RAS is in my shop to stay, even though I do sometimes have to uncover it when I need to use it. It just doesn't see service as often as in the past. But still gets used

Seems to me that the equivialent of a RAS today is a sliding miter saw. It just has a lot more saftey equipment on it. Nobody seems to complain much about that class of tools.

dwevans wrote:Seems to me that the equivialent of a RAS today is a sliding miter saw. It just has a lot more saftey equipment on it. Nobody seems to complain much about that class of tools.

Not being argumentative but what saftey equipment does a sliding miter saw have that a RAS doesn't?

With a powered mitre saw you lose a lot of versatility. Hard to do dado's, can't spindle sand, rout or drill.

I think no one complains because the power miter saw is the in thing and no body wants to look stupid criticizing it.

affyx wrote:Ed: How do you do horizontal boring on the RAS? Thx

You swivel the carriage around, mount a drill chuck to the aux spindle and chuck in a bit then you use the height adjustment to center you drill and you either push or pull the carriage back until you reached the depth of cut you want. On longer wood you can turn the carriage so you can position the wood to the side and then moving the wood drill into it.

Also many RAS have an Aux spindle speed fast enough for Routing. So in effect you can have and Overhead Pin Router also. Very versatile the RAS.

Ed in Tampa wrote:Not being argumentative but what saftey equipment does a sliding miter saw have that a RAS doesn't?

With a powered mitre saw you lose a lot of versatility. Hard to do dado's, can't spindle sand, rout or drill.

I think no one complains because the power miter saw is the in thing and no body wants to look stupid criticizing it.

Not argumentative at all, I stand corrected. I should have said, the RAS I have used has no safety equipment, but it is older than I am and they were not so safety oriented back then. (Manufacturers, not woodworkers) It was my Grandfathers saw.

So many issues raised, where to begin?

Safety: They ARE a potential implement of maiming! But then so is an axe or a sledge hammer! The 'safety' problem is in the realm of improper use. The length and differing direction capability of the path when 'pulled' into the workpiece does expose a careless operator to the likely hood of amputation of their fingers when carelessly put in its path. This is exacerbated by the typical fast draw through the workpiece when in a hurry. The pinkies are severed by the time the brain realizes the close proximity of the blade. Translation:Operator stupi....carelessness can/will result in injury!

Accuracy: Since the parts which typically contact the workpiece are not metal(typically wood) the preciseness IS compromised(hard maple surfaces are not typical). Also looseness in the slide etc. will contribute to inaccuracy. Excessive wear of the table top surface(due to nibbling away by the blade with use) will also contribute to inaccuracy. IMHO the RAS is useful for cutting large workpieces to a more manageable size for subsequent 'accurate' cutting on a smaller saw(ss/table saw). They are GREAT for cutting framing lumber(rafters etc.).

Current 'IN' miter box/cutoff saws: Few of them(if any) have the width of cut capability of most RAS. A big CO saw will handle 2x8. There are bigger ones to handle 2x12, but they are 'not typical hobbyist tools'. Cutoff capability of beyond 12" is posible on all but the smaller RAS. My 10" RAS has a carriage travel of over 16".

Dust Collection: Since the debris is thrown directly towards the back, a relatively small open chute catches almost all of it when attached to a (GASP) vacuum cleaner. This does not apply when ripping!

Ripping: Yep! Again - engage brain before operating. This is a potentially hazardous operation(as it is on a table saw also). The RAS has a very wide capability(My 10" can rip beyond 18" width). The thing which is different from crosscutting is that the blade is held stationary and the workpiece is fed into it(just like a table saw). Not to be overlooked is the relative ease of ripping a bevel.

Climb cutting: The RAS by intent cuts by climbing(normal cutting is controlled without actual climbing out of the cut). This is because the cutting is from the top rather than the bottom as in a table saw. The direction of rotation of the blade is the same. This also results in the kick back being away from the operator.

The newer 'chop' saws with counter rotating blades ARE an improvement since any tendency of the blade to 'move' the workpiece is somewhat countered by the opposite blade motion.

ALL in ALL IMHO they have been/are getting a bum rap. That being said, since the result of stup...ignor...carelessness IS SO severe, I would not recommend one to anyone unless I know their IQ/Experience/common sense attributes were adequate.

I agree Ed that they are (like the SS) the target of criticism. SOME of it IS justified, but usually blown out of proportion or ignorance(or rejection ) of alternative thinking/or other ways of using.

That was probably my most favorite feature with the RAS. Ripping bevels. I always felt more compfortable doing it on the RAS then the SS.