heathicus wrote:I'm fine with that. And I realize the wood behaves that way, but poor cuts are due to a number of variables. If I can confidently eliminate one of those variables - that being alignment - with the dial indicator, then it's worth it to me. I can direct my focus on other variables like technique and user error.
I'm all on my own here learning woodworking. I don't have a mentor or anybody to show me things. And the equipment I'm using I have completely disassembled, restored, and reassembled. I feel that setting those machines back up with accurate alignments will make the learning process a lot easier for me. And, as my skills and confidence improve and I become more familiar with using the machines, if I can become less reliant on a dial indicator that's fine. But the dial indicator helps give me confidence in the machines to accurately do their job so I can focus on gaining the confidence in doing my job.
heathicus,
There are many different view points regarding calibration and the need to use instruments as accurate as a dial indicator. I trust that you have endured many of these. I also trust that you know my varied position on this subject.
I did a lot like I believe you are doing now. I set out with a personal objective of fine tuning my Mark V as accurately as it could possibly be done without re-engineering it. I feel that I have done that and I feel that I have posted all that I have learned here on this forum.
I commend you on your endeavor and I hope you have the same or greater level of success than I believe I have had.
As a side comment, an accuracy objective of .005" is achieveable.
"Making Sawdust Safely" Dusty
Sent from my Dell XPS using Firefox.
There are many different view points regarding calibration and the need to use instruments as accurate as a dial indicator. I trust that you have endured many of these. I also trust that you know my varied position on this subject.
I did a lot like I believe you are doing now. I set out with a personal objective of fine tuning my Mark V as accurately as it could possibly be done without re-engineering it. I feel that I have done that and I feel that I have posted all that I have learned here on this forum.
I commend you on your endeavor and I hope you have the same or greater level of success that I believe I have had.
As a side comment, an accuracy objective of .005" is achieveable.
Not to beat this horse any more, but 0.005" WHERE???? Everywhere an 'error' is possible, or the max of accumulated errorS?
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Goldie(Bought New SN 377425)/4" jointer/6" beltsander/12" planer/stripsander/bandsaw/powerstation /Scroll saw/Jig saw /Craftsman 10" ras/Craftsman 6" thicknessplaner/ Dayton10"tablesaw(restoredfromneighborstrashpile)/ Mark VII restoration in 'progress'/ 10E[/size](SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange
JPG40504 wrote:Not to beat this horse any more, but 0.005" WHERE???? Everywhere an 'error' is possible, or the max of accumulated errorS?
jpg;
This thread is about main table alignment. Based on that, I would assume that .005" has to do with alignment of miter slot to blade but, if not, .005" would probably be ok tolerance no matter what you are measuring.
"Making Sawdust Safely" Dusty
Sent from my Dell XPS using Firefox.
In my afternoon play time today I decided to do a check of one of my 520's, that being the one I often move from garage to driveway for use. The driveway is not smooth, the garage is higher then the driveway so it needs to get lifted to make the passage. This is to say this shopsmith is not just sitting in the shop for years on end.
I did the 500 to 520 I believe about 5 years ago this winter. I have checked but not had to readjust anything so far and with today's check I found that the miter slots are within .0015" of perpendicular to the headstock. The vertical was right on and the rip fence is out at the back by .004" in reference to the headstock. Need less to say I did not attempt any additional adjustments as this is more then fine enough for me.
In reference to the .005" number I believe we might be able to find that post to be sure but I think it was a reference of the rip fence to blade???
The alignment was done by using the old methods before the dial indicator was part of the things that shopsmith sold. I have had a shopsmith since 1976 and have found mine to stay in alignment quite well. When I have adjusted things it was most often due to me taking things apart or just wanting to check things and then finding out part way through that the reason it was off was because I had not tightened some knob or lever... yea it almost happened to me a couple of years ago again... and today. It sure look like it was way off even before I measured... headstock wasn't locked in place... da. At least now I know enough to check everything just like I was going to use the shopsmith with the addition of making sure it is not plugged in.
Ed
{Knight of the Shopsmith} [Hero's don't wear capes, they wear dog tags]
reible wrote:In my afternoon play time today I decided to do a check of one of my 520's, that being the one I often move from garage to driveway for use. The driveway is not smooth, the garage is higher then the driveway so it needs to get lifted to make the passage. This is to say this shopsmith is not just sitting in the shop for years on end.
I did the 500 to 520 I believe about 5 years ago this winter. I have checked but not had to readjust anything so far and with today's check I found that the miter slots are within .0015" of perpendicular to the headstock. The vertical was right on and the rip fence is out at the back by .004" in reference to the headstock. Need less to say I did not attempt any additional adjustments as this is more then fine enough for me.
In reference to the .005" number I believe we might be able to find that post to be sure but I think it was a reference of the rip fence to blade???
The alignment was done by using the old methods before the dial indicator was part of the things that shopsmith sold. I have had a shopsmith since 1976 and have found mine to stay in alignment quite well. When I have adjusted things it was most often due to me taking things apart or just wanting to check things and then finding out part way through that the reason it was off was because I had not tightened some knob or lever... yea it almost happened to me a couple of years ago again... and today. It sure look like it was way off even before I measured... headstock wasn't locked in place... da. At least now I know enough to check everything just like I was going to use the shopsmith with the addition of making sure it is not plugged in.
Ed
Ed
You have made a very good point, Ed. The carriage and headstock locks make a world of difference in how everything aligns. Having the tubes tied to extension tables does too.
If you have not already seen this for yourself, setup for a table alignment without locking either the carriage or the headstock. Then, with the dial indicator in place, watch it as you tighten the locks.
"Making Sawdust Safely" Dusty
Sent from my Dell XPS using Firefox.
The last time I bit myself it was the head rest handle.... yep it is all tied together. You don't even have to have the dial indicator you can see it move just by looking at it...
I will get an opportunity when the new table comes to do an experiment that I've been waiting to try. If it works out it may be a much simpler way of doing a lot of the alignment.
I don't want to do the posting until I have had time to try it out for myself... at least in theory it sound good but it also requires spending some money to get the things you need. I guess I should also fix the dial indicator as having to shim it all the time is tedious. It is either that or buy a good one and I'm tempted to go in that direction.
Ed
dusty wrote:You have made a very good point, Ed. The carriage and headstock locks make a world of difference in how everything aligns. Having the tubes tied to extension tables does too.
If you have not already seen this for yourself, setup for a table alignment without locking either the carriage or the headstock. Then, with the dial indicator in place, watch it as you tighten the locks.
{Knight of the Shopsmith} [Hero's don't wear capes, they wear dog tags]
All you gentlemen that have the two and three decades of ShopSmith experience are a real inspiration to us rookies. Reading your posts, you obviously have had and continue to have a remarkable "relationships" with your machines. Your experience is remarkable. The neat thing.......I KNOW all of you are still learning everyday. Pretty cool!! The forum helps everyone so much. Thanks guys.
mickyd wrote:All you gentlemen that have the two and three decades of ShopSmith experience are a real inspiration to us rookies. Reading your posts, you obviously have had and continue to have a remarkable "relationships" with your machines. Your experience is remarkable. The neat thing.......I KNOW all of you are still learning everyday. Pretty cool!! The forum helps everyone so much. Thanks guys.
Those with 4 to 5 decades thank you also. We are never too old to learn!(that is one thing age teaches you[you just thought you knew something when you were young{er}]).
Fortunately for some of us, more time to ponder ss things HAS led to more learning/thinking about it!
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Goldie(Bought New SN 377425)/4" jointer/6" beltsander/12" planer/stripsander/bandsaw/powerstation /Scroll saw/Jig saw /Craftsman 10" ras/Craftsman 6" thicknessplaner/ Dayton10"tablesaw(restoredfromneighborstrashpile)/ Mark VII restoration in 'progress'/ 10E[/size](SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange
reible wrote:... I guess I should also fix the dial indicator as having to shim it all the time is tedious. It is either that or buy a good one and I'm tempted to go in that direction.
Ed
When I got my DI from SS and saw in the instructions to add a piece of paper in the miter slot as a shim I decided there had to be a better easier way. Looking around I spied a short bungie cord (~ 8") with thin wire hooks. And over there on my router table was my little 8-light LED flashlight with a convenient hole in the end for a lanyard.
Aha.
Hooked the bungie to the DI rig's slide-bar slot, draped it over the edge of the table and hung the flashlight (a few ounces weight) on it.
When I moved the DI assy. front to back or whatever and let go I heard the 'click' of the bar being pulled to the right side of the miter slot. Verified a few times and it was right on steady.
Mark V 520, Power-Pro!; Speed Reducer; B/S; Jointer; ShopMate DCS; SS Tenon Master; Rip-Strate; Incra; BCTW; DW734; var. SS sanding systems; Wood River;
keakap wrote:When I got my DI from SS and saw in the instructions to add a piece of paper in the miter slot as a shim I decided there had to be a better easier way. Looking around I spied a short bungie cord (~ 8") with thin wire hooks. And over there on my router table was my little 8-light LED flashlight with a convenient hole in the end for a lanyard.
Aha.
Hooked the bungie to the DI rig's slide-bar slot, draped it over the edge of the table and hung the flashlight (a few ounces weight) on it.
When I moved the DI assy. front to back or whatever and let go I heard the 'click' of the bar being pulled to the right side of the miter slot. Verified a few times and it was right on steady.
Based on my own experieces with three different tables (six miter slots), the slop in the miter track accounts for +-.003" in your dial indicator reading.
Whatever you do to eliminate that improves the accuracy of you readings.
I have evolved to a miter bar from Incra and/or one made of wood. Both work equally well.
"Making Sawdust Safely" Dusty
Sent from my Dell XPS using Firefox.
And I realize the wood behaves that way, but poor cuts are due to a number of variables. If I can confidently eliminate one of those variables - that being alignment - with the dial indicator, then it's worth it to me. I can direct my focus on other variables like technique and user error.
