Finally got it straight

[tango]

Well after considerable effort and quite a bit of head scratching I finally figured out why my fence wouldn't align to the blade.

I adjusted everything I could think of. I tried adjusting the fence time and time again, but no matter how much I tried it just wouldn't straighten out. Then I figured the problem had to be somewhere else. I removed the four bolts holding the table to the carriage and this is what I found
[ATTACH]6409[/ATTACH]

Three of the holes looked like the shot on the right, but the forth was just big enough for the bolt to fit through (shot on the left)

Has anyone else discovered this with theirs?

[ATTACH]6410[/ATTACH]
This is the front of the blade (right) and the rear of the blade (left) prior to fixing the problem. You can see a slight difference, but that made a huge difference when cutting.

[ATTACH]6411[/ATTACH]
Once I found the problem I was able to adjust it properly. Now, here is the front of the blade after adjustment; measured from the rip fence to the blade.

[ATTACH]6412[/ATTACH]
And here is the back of the blade after adjustment with the same measurement. You can see that it is still slightly out of adjustment, but it's going to have to do for now. I don't do much on the saw that requires a great deal of precision, so I'm not too concerned.

I have to admit though, once the table and blade were aligned the result was astounding. I ripped a 32" piece of lacewood and it cut like a hot knife through butter. The back of the blade didn't bind on the wood nor did it give me a poor cut, wow what a difference.

It was the forth bolt holding the table to the carriage that was causing all the trouble. Every time I adjusted the four bolts the one would just pull the table back out of alignment. I had no choice but to remove that bolt for good. Now there are only three bolts holding the table to carriage assembly. It's probably not the best way to do it but it works and I'm sure that the safety of the saw hasn't been compromised.

I could've tried drilling it out, but there's a lot of metal there and I didn't want to risk a ruined bit, or any sort of injury, so I just left well enough alone.

For now I'm back in business and running like never before. I've got a lacewood block being glued up right now just dying to be turned into another pepper mill. I'll post pics when she's all complete.

I want to thank everyone who contributed to the solution of this problem. There were a lot of good ideas submitted, and the support was overwhelming. You guys really are good e-buddies

Tango

[dusty]

Do I understand correctly that the rip fence is not (was not) the primary cause of your problem but that the table alignment fixed your problem.

If the hole that you think needs to be drilled larger is in the trunnion, you are likely correct. There are several posts/threads on that subject.

http://www.shopsmith.net/forums/showthread.htm?t=1769&highlight=trunnion

[charlese]

Now that you know which hole is the smaller one, use that one as a pivot. With the bolt in the smaller hole just snug and the other three bolts looser - pivot the table to achieve alignment and tighten the other three bolts carefully.

That way you can have four bolts holding the unit.

[JPG]

FYI http://www.shopsmith.net/forums/showpos ... ostcount=2

More! http://www.shopsmith.net/forums/showpos ... ostcount=4

[Ed in Tampa]

Now that you know which hole is the smaller one, use that one as a pivot. With the bolt in the smaller hole just snug and the other three bolts looser - pivot the table to achieve alignment and tighten the other three bolts carefully.

That way you can have four bolts holding the unit.

I drilled mine and I ruined a bit and injured my hand (my fault).

However I agree with Chuck you should be able to adjust the table just fine using the bolt in the small hole as the pivot and using the other three which have slop to make the adjustments.

I know somewhere in the Shopsmith alignment procedures this was in fact the stated way to align the table. The bolt on the rear trunnion closest to the blade was the pivot bolt and the other three were used to adjust the table.

I know I read that. I have tried to find it and I suspect it was discarded in the alignment procedure changes when I went to the 520 from a 510.

However over the course of much discussion and some comments by others I got convinced my trunnion needed drilled, so I did it. Let me tell you if you decide to do it make sure the trunnion is securely clamped. Mine wasn't and was ripped out of my hands. My hand was sore for nearly 6+ months.

[tango]

Now that you know which hole is the smaller one, use that one as a pivot. With the bolt in the smaller hole just snug and the other three bolts looser - pivot the table to achieve alignment and tighten the other three bolts carefully.

That way you can have four bolts holding the unit.

I really wish this would work, but no matter how much I tried it continued to pull the table back out of alignment. Also, now that the fourth bolt is missing the table tilt is nowhere near as smooth as it was. I'm not sure if there is a further underlying situation, but the table is aligned to the blade, but the table does not tilt nearly as well.

I have moved the SS several times due to my military career so that could be the reason for the misalignment... I don't really know.

If the trunion (didn't know that was the name) needs to be drilled out to fit the fourth bolt I guess I'll have to tackle that on a different day, however for now I'm just going to let it alone since it seems to work fine.

[tango]

Do I understand correctly that the rip fence is not (was not) the primary cause of your problem but that the table alignment fixed your problem.

If the hole that you think needs to be drilled larger is in the trunnion, you are likely correct. There are several posts/threads on that subject.

http://www.shopsmith.net/forums/showthread.htm?t=1769&highlight=trunnion

You bet Dusty, the fence was fine (which I suspected) and the table was the problem. I was hoping that wasn't the case, but to my dismay it was... oh well.

[dusty]

You bet Dusty, the fence was fine (which I suspected) and the table was the problem. I was hoping that wasn't the case, but to my dismay it was... oh well.

Do not despair. On some table and trunnion sets this alignment may be more challenging than on others but it can be done. You just brought in another symptom that is common with the table alignment procedure. The table tilt becomes difficult. What has happened is when the table shifted as you tightened down the bolts, one of the trunnions shifted.

In post #4, this thread, jpg has given you Nick's procedure for correcting this. Use that $20 bill every time you do the alignment and you will avoid that symptom.

The next time you have the bolts loose, put the table in the horizontal position and try to move the table around. I have drilled the holes on my 520 and I can move the table in all directions about 1/8". With one hole smaller, all that can be done is pivot the table about 1/8" back and forth around that one trunnion bolt.

Shopsmith has said, somewhere) that one bolt should be made tight for this alignment and the table moved around that bolt until it is in the proper position. Mine was that way before I drilled out the trunnion holes. It worked but it was tedious.

Like charlese has said, this thread, tighten one trunnion bolt but make sure it is the hole in the small hole. Done that way, while using the $20 bill, and the table should align.

I don't do mine that way any more. I have what some would consider a bad habit of always trying do do everything my own way. My own procedure is discussed briefly here. I have my table aligned well within the .005" that is the typical target.

If you want to discuss this off line just email me.

[JPG]

I would add that the single bolt to be 'tight' be just snugged up rather than tightened. Snugging it creates a .pivot point, but it needs to be pivoted. Snugging it allows the pivot desired, and allows pivoting without too much force.

If drilling anything,(especially with large bits) do NOT hold by hand. If you do, be prepared for that "catch" and to suffer all consequences!:(

P.S. If you do decide to drill the small trunion hole, align the hole to the quill by first lowering a bit the size of the current hole down through that hole before clamping it.(do this with the SS NOT running)

[nuhobby]

I will add one more comment which I saw on a ~1982 Model 500 last year.

In this case the 2 Carriage tube holes (which accept the Table/Trunnion assembly) were just visibly mis-bored; out of alignment with respect to each other. I was barely able to get the machine to align properly:
- Used up the entire bolt-holes adjustment range to accomplish the table-saw alignment, with the system in horizontal mode.
- Had to add a couple shims on the outfeed-side table-mounts to get the table to be truly perpendicular to the drill axis, in vertical system mode. (This is easier to check with a sanding-disc than a drill.)
- Iterated the above steps to get it right.

Probably the 510 generation is more accurately tooled and your carriage machining is OK. But you may want to check that out too.

Good luck!