Cut with Shopsmith 520 not as good as 500

[mwebb]

I purchased my Shopsmith in 1984. I used the original 500 to build furniture primarily, and for the lathe. I was always going to up grade, but never justified the expense and made due with the small tables and limited applications. Recenty, we remodeled our house and I get to be the finish guy. So I figured that now would be the time to upgrade. I made the jump from 500 to 520. I really like the big tables. The fence is smooth and easy to operate. But I am having a terrible time with my saw cuts coming out rough. With the 500 the cuts would come out a quality that you didn't need to joint them before glueing. the cut now looks like a band saw cut.
I have gone through the instructions that came with the kit to realign the main table three times. Is there something I am missing? Also, are there other instrctions available on alignment that might be in greater detail.
I would like to get this licked, as has proven the case in the past with my remodel I am using the shopsmith for everything.

[dusty]

The quality of cut should not have been adversely effected by the upgrade.

Please make certain that you are using the correct blade (rip/crosscut/combo) and make sure it is sharp. Search this forum, you'll find several discussions on "which blade to use". Be prepared to answer "How much do I want to spend on a blade?"

Read the following (I suggest you browse the entire thread). I think this might help with your table alignment.

http://www.shopsmith.net/forums/showthread.htm?t=131

[drdave]

The 4 things you need to look at in quality of cuts are:

1) quality and sharpness of blade (independent of model so if you used the same blade right after the upgrade it won't matter)
2) The wear on the drive shaft of the saw call it run out (assuming you are using the same headstock still not an issue)
3) the alignment of the blade to the fence (a HUGE issue with the upgrade since the upgrade unlike a new 520 can't be set up at Shopsmith warehouse and aligned)
4) the width of the kerf in then table (allowing for tear out) (also not an issue according to your message since you are seeing the defect in the board edge not face)

So with that in mind look at the alignment of the blade to the fence OR better yet lock a small piece of wood into the miter gauge (or Incra table if you have one) and cut it and see if the defects are still there.

If the defects are gone then we know the board is binding against the fence if they are still there the blade is bad

My bet would be the alignment is off on the table fence blade apparatus
When we teach alignment on the MK5 we do NOT follow the manual we use a more "common" approach that conventional saw companies use and that is using micrometers and like

Dr D

[mwebb]

Dusty and Dr Dave

Thank you for your responses. After I put up my post, i looked through previous questions and found the one that Dusty directed me to. I am also ordering the dial indicator. I believe if it helps my cuts, and setup its well worth the cost. Yesterday I dropped off my older sawblade to be sharpened and I am not sure that the blade that is causing me the angst isn't a cheap carbide blade that needs sharpening to align the carbide tips. While waiting for the delivery of the dialer I am going to try the setup with a straight edge aligned with the front and back of the blade teeth to see if it is the blade or the fence alignment. I also came across the alignment for the rive knife which will also be helpful.

I'll let you know of my progress.

[dusty]

I have a dial indicator and a Wixey. I use them very little. I find that if I take my time and pay attention to detail while I am doing the alignments, I can set up the Shopsmith to a very tight tolerance.

I have set it up several times and after getting it done the "old fashion way" checked it with the dial indicator and/or the Wixey. I very seldom readjust and I could probably say "I never needed to readjust".

Now I don't build fine furniture and the like so tolerances to the 32nd of an inch or tighter are never necessary even though the Shopsmith can be brought in to a very, very tight set of specifications.

Incidently, I use a Shopsmith carbide combination blade and I get a very clean cut. I won't go so far as to say I don't ever need to sand but it sure isn't a cut that would cause anyone concern. Expensive blades and recently well sharpened blades probably do better and are "needed" by some craftsmen but NOT I.

Please keep us posted on the results of your efforts. I am always interested in how people make their Shopsmith perform as it should.

[Ed in Tampa]

I will bet the improvement will come when you mount a sharp blade.
I had bought a new blade (Delta) and tried it I didn't like the cut compared to my SS combo blade. I took the new blade back. I then took my SS blade to be sharpened and I totally amazed it was so much better than previously.
A dull blade or even one tooth with a little nick or something to effect set and the cut quality will be down.

I'm with Dusty I have found that using the SS alignment methods I have come so close to perfection that when I checked it with a dial indicator that I didn't bother to change anything.

I would like to put a Wixely on my machine to see how I'm with tilt but if my squares, angles and protractor/adjustable angle are any good I'm right on these also.

I find my biggest problem is not my machine but slippage when actually cutting. I have been watching Dave Marks (woodworks on DIY) and notice that he will always clamp his boards to his mitre, crosscut sled, whatever if there is a way to clamp them.

I have tried this and noticed a definite improvement in my cut and in the fit.
Ed

[dusty]

I find that my height, with respect to the table top, contributes greatly to accuracy. When I am using a TS that hits me just below waist high, I can see the work (the cut marks) better thus better accuracy.

When using my Shopsmith, the main table height is higher, thus I am not able to "look down" on my work the same. Without being able to see the cut mark and the blade as well, I don't hit it as accurately.

Thus, my post elsewhere where I indicate an intent to lower my Shopsmith. Wish Shopsmith made legs that were about 1 foot shorter.

[charlese]

Dusty - I'm only 5'7". At least I used to be before I got old and shrunk a bit! Try This! It works for me.
Method one: make a pencil mark on the TOP of the piece you want to saw. Then with the saw off bend over, run the board right up to the saw, sight down the line like shooting a rifle, and set the line just where you want it (to the right or left of the blade) and BINGO you are lined up.

Method two: If you can afford to waste a quarter inch of the workpiece, make a sample cut to the outside of your mark (again on the top of the piece) and while never taking the piece from your miter gauge, sneak up on it! Cut two or three times to make it perfect.

Method three: Using a straight edge, set it on the blade, (using the outside of the teeth) and make a pencil mark on the table. You can then line up the cut mark with the line on the table. This works with cross cuts, miter cuts and dadoes. Make sure you have located the correct side of the blade;)

[Ed in Tampa]

I find that my height, with respect to the table top, contributes greatly to accuracy. When I am using a TS that hits me just below waist high, I can see the work (the cut marks) better thus better accuracy.

When using my Shopsmith, the main table height is higher, thus I am not able to "look down" on my work the same. Without being able to see the cut mark and the blade as well, I don't hit it as accurately.

Thus, my post elsewhere where I indicate an intent to lower my Shopsmith. Wish Shopsmith made legs that were about 1 foot shorter.

Dusty
I'm 6' 2" and I like the SS height but I align my work like Chuck by bending over and sighting my mark to the blade. I draw a line on my work or two marks and I'm usually can get right on.

As i mentioned I'm now experimenting with clamping. I use the SS holddown, c clamps or a stop block to hold my work so it will not move. Since I have been doing this my cut quality and my fit quality has drastically improved. In fact I even proved it, to myself. I made two cuts one I held as tight as I could and the other clamped. My totally unscienctific results to me proved the clamped cut was the best. I did the same thing in using pine, the first test was oak, and the two cuts looked to be the same.

My conclusion the grain in the oak can and will shift the wood enough to yield a rougher cut than one that is clamped. In pine because the grain is wider it doesn't seem to effect the cut.

My motto now is if it possible to clamp the work in place before I machine it I do. If it can't be clamped I expect some movement. Then I tend to cut leaving the line and either joint, rout or sand the line away.
Ed

[charlese]

Ed reminded me! Forgot about miter slippage. A while back I bought a SS "Miter Pro"(555404). I come with stick on sandpaper to keep slippage from happening when mitering. Also a while back I removed the long leg from the "Miter Pro" and put it on my miter gauge. It is used there all of the time I'm not mitering and works excellently as a 24 inch extension and a wood stabilizer. There is no slippage. The only problem comes when I want to use the miter gauge on the left side of the blade.

The arm for the Miter Pro is exactly the same as the "Aluminum Miter Gauge Extension" (555429) Except a replacement arm for the Miter Pro sells for a lesser cost and comes with the sandpaper, but not the stop block. I now have two arms. One for the Miter Pro and the other for the miter gauge