The first time I used my brand new router attachment, the arbor set screw came loose allowing the arbor and bit to drop down, grabbed the piece of trim, ripped it out of my hands, threw it across my shop and put a hole in the wall!
I reinstalled it, placed 4 feather boards on the fence and table, carefully aiming the stock at the existing hole in the wall so I wouldn't make a new one, tried again and it came loose, dropped down and chewed up the piece of trim.
Stubborn as I am, I reinstalled it using all the force I could muster, almost turning the hex key into a spiral and off I went again.
Sloooowwwwly feeding the stock into the bit (1/4 Roman Ogee) with a very light cut, I was able to complete a 7' piece of trim. Unknown to me, the arbor came loose at the very end of the piece, dropped down onto the table, cut a nice half moon into my saw table insert, all before I could get to the off switch.
I wrote to shopsmith technical help but they have not answered me.
How the heck do I get this thing to stay on the shaft? I need to put it on and take it off, so can't use loctite. I am using it in vertical mode.
The problem is with the set screw which will not hold. Possibly due to vibrations caused when routing at high speed.
1/4 inch router attachment
Moderators: HopefulSSer, admin
Hi,
I'm just glad you are not at the emergency room.......
I don't have the 1/4" chuck but I do have the 1/2" on and have never seen it come loose. Nor do I use it much.
The fact is the shopsmith is not a router, it will never come close as long as the speed is in the 5k rpm range. Even with the speed increaser you are at only 10K or about the low end of a real router. Depending on the bit and router you have lets say the real router is running at 20,000 rpm. The shopsmith is at 1/4 that speed, thus all other things being the same you would need to have a feed rate 1/4 of that used for a router.... really slow.{Yes the shopsmith does work well for a limited number of router operations, I'll let others mention them}
When ever you can it is a good idea to use 1/2" shank bits, if you look at just the cost you will see they are often the same price or just a bit more and worth it. A mid priced carbide bit will give good service life and good cuts... cheap bit, I will not even talk about.
Now lets talk about vibration. If when you are cutting you feel a lot of vibration that is telling you something is wrong. To deep a cut, to fast a feed, dull bit, bad bit, or something else is wrong. If you can't control the vibration then don't do project.
After having the problems you have seen I would say you need to talk to someone at shopsmith... pick up the phone and give them a call... do not attempt to use this set up again unless they can solve it for you... You have been lucky so far, any number of bad things could have happened to you so don't press it....
Ed
BTW after all that has happened to the bit it might well be ready for the dust bin. It is easy to bend the shaft and damage the edges during times like this. In fact the first wood toss could well have bent the shaft and the remaining problems have been the damaged bit????
I'm just glad you are not at the emergency room.......
I don't have the 1/4" chuck but I do have the 1/2" on and have never seen it come loose. Nor do I use it much.
The fact is the shopsmith is not a router, it will never come close as long as the speed is in the 5k rpm range. Even with the speed increaser you are at only 10K or about the low end of a real router. Depending on the bit and router you have lets say the real router is running at 20,000 rpm. The shopsmith is at 1/4 that speed, thus all other things being the same you would need to have a feed rate 1/4 of that used for a router.... really slow.{Yes the shopsmith does work well for a limited number of router operations, I'll let others mention them}
When ever you can it is a good idea to use 1/2" shank bits, if you look at just the cost you will see they are often the same price or just a bit more and worth it. A mid priced carbide bit will give good service life and good cuts... cheap bit, I will not even talk about.
Now lets talk about vibration. If when you are cutting you feel a lot of vibration that is telling you something is wrong. To deep a cut, to fast a feed, dull bit, bad bit, or something else is wrong. If you can't control the vibration then don't do project.
After having the problems you have seen I would say you need to talk to someone at shopsmith... pick up the phone and give them a call... do not attempt to use this set up again unless they can solve it for you... You have been lucky so far, any number of bad things could have happened to you so don't press it....
Ed
BTW after all that has happened to the bit it might well be ready for the dust bin. It is easy to bend the shaft and damage the edges during times like this. In fact the first wood toss could well have bent the shaft and the remaining problems have been the damaged bit????
router attachment
Check the set screws. Shopsmith did use a unique softer setscrew for anything that attaches to the quill shaft. A normal setscrew with a flat bottom will not hold long. Remove the setscrew before calling Shopsmith and tell them what the bottom of it looks like. It should have a dimple in the end with small cuts around the dimple. Because it is a softer material, it does need replacing after a few dozen uses. I only get my set screws from Shopsmith for any quill attachment. If I find the end of the set screw has flatten, I do use the blue Lock-Tite (removable) on the threads as a temporay solution. I have been known to file a flat spot on the router bit for the router bit set screw to fit on, however I do not recommend this solution to a loose bit problem. Keep us informed to your solution.
Bill Mayo
Bill Mayo
russw553 wrote:The first time I used my brand new router attachment, the arbor set screw came loose allowing the arbor and bit to drop down, grabbed the piece of trim, ripped it out of my hands, threw it across my shop and put a hole in the wall!
I reinstalled it, placed 4 feather boards on the fence and table, carefully aiming the stock at the existing hole in the wall so I wouldn't make a new one, tried again and it came loose, dropped down and chewed up the piece of trim.
Stubborn as I am, I reinstalled it using all the force I could muster, almost turning the hex key into a spiral and off I went again.
Sloooowwwwly feeding the stock into the bit (1/4 Roman Ogee) with a very light cut, I was able to complete a 7' piece of trim. Unknown to me, the arbor came loose at the very end of the piece, dropped down onto the table, cut a nice half moon into my saw table insert, all before I could get to the off switch.
I wrote to shopsmith technical help but they have not answered me.
How the heck do I get this thing to stay on the shaft? I need to put it on and take it off, so can't use loctite. I am using it in vertical mode.
The problem is with the set screw which will not hold. Possibly due to vibrations caused when routing at high speed.
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james.miller
- Gold Member
- Posts: 303
- Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 2:16 pm
The light passes you were taking usually work.
It is a good idea to check the router bit after an incident to see if there is any damaged to the cutting edges. If chipped it will need to be resharpened or replaced. A professional resharpening place should be able to tell if it is bent slightly.
For a thread locker I use VibraTite by ND, it is reusable at least for a few times before reapplying it.
Jim in Tucson
It is a good idea to check the router bit after an incident to see if there is any damaged to the cutting edges. If chipped it will need to be resharpened or replaced. A professional resharpening place should be able to tell if it is bent slightly.
For a thread locker I use VibraTite by ND, it is reusable at least for a few times before reapplying it.
Jim in Tucson
russw553 - First of all- Welcome to the forum!
I have used my 1/4" router arbor many times with no such problems - like you for edge routing and also some shallow "V" grooves. Also have used the 1/2" arbor with no problems. All of the above replies gave good advice! I particularly like Bill Mayo's suggestion about the set screw itself.
I've never had a problem with any of the arbor set screws until I recently bought 3 new saw blades and 3 new saw arbors. The arbor that holds the rip blade is prone to come loose. Sometimes after just one cut. That has happened to me three times. I've been lucky enough to catch it before the blade comes off. I've also been lucky that a re-tighten usually works. I'll have to check the screw tip tomorrow.
Here's what happened to that arbor and set screw; This was kind of a funny set screw from the get-go. The first time I used the arbor I tightened the screw with the same torque as others. In this case something new happened. I heard it squeak and there was a jump in the screw. Knowing that this sounded like trouble I tried to loosen it. After twisting a wrench, finally put torque on a new wrench and beat it with a ball pien hammer. It finally broke loose. I did remove the screw and it looked O.K. (threads), but didn't really know what I was looking for. I probably wrecked the set end of the screw. Gonna switch arbor screws and see if the problem is in the screw or the arbor.
Good luck in solving your problem. A phone call to Shopsmith should help!
I have used my 1/4" router arbor many times with no such problems - like you for edge routing and also some shallow "V" grooves. Also have used the 1/2" arbor with no problems. All of the above replies gave good advice! I particularly like Bill Mayo's suggestion about the set screw itself.
I've never had a problem with any of the arbor set screws until I recently bought 3 new saw blades and 3 new saw arbors. The arbor that holds the rip blade is prone to come loose. Sometimes after just one cut. That has happened to me three times. I've been lucky enough to catch it before the blade comes off. I've also been lucky that a re-tighten usually works. I'll have to check the screw tip tomorrow.
Here's what happened to that arbor and set screw; This was kind of a funny set screw from the get-go. The first time I used the arbor I tightened the screw with the same torque as others. In this case something new happened. I heard it squeak and there was a jump in the screw. Knowing that this sounded like trouble I tried to loosen it. After twisting a wrench, finally put torque on a new wrench and beat it with a ball pien hammer. It finally broke loose. I did remove the screw and it looked O.K. (threads), but didn't really know what I was looking for. I probably wrecked the set end of the screw. Gonna switch arbor screws and see if the problem is in the screw or the arbor.
Good luck in solving your problem. A phone call to Shopsmith should help!
Octogenarian's have an earned right to be a curmudgeon.
Chuck in Lancaster, CA
Chuck in Lancaster, CA
-
Ed in Tampa
- Platinum Member
- Posts: 5830
- Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2006 12:45 am
- Location: North Tampa Bay area Florida
russw553 wrote:The first time I used my brand new router attachment, the arbor set screw came loose allowing the arbor and bit to drop down, grabbed the piece of trim, ripped it out of my hands, threw it across my shop and put a hole in the wall!
I reinstalled it, placed 4 feather boards on the fence and table, carefully aiming the stock at the existing hole in the wall so I wouldn't make a new one, tried again and it came loose, dropped down and chewed up the piece of trim.
Stubborn as I am, I reinstalled it using all the force I could muster, almost turning the hex key into a spiral and off I went again.
Sloooowwwwly feeding the stock into the bit (1/4 Roman Ogee) with a very light cut, I was able to complete a 7' piece of trim. Unknown to me, the arbor came loose at the very end of the piece, dropped down onto the table, cut a nice half moon into my saw table insert, all before I could get to the off switch.
I wrote to shopsmith technical help but they have not answered me.
How the heck do I get this thing to stay on the shaft? I need to put it on and take it off, so can't use loctite. I am using it in vertical mode.
The problem is with the set screw which will not hold. Possibly due to vibrations caused when routing at high speed.
Been there done that got the T-shirt. That is the thing that makes me angry with SS any mistake usually eats wood. If the same happened on a router table the bit falls away from the wood and etc.
First Bill Mayo's advice is right on. Secondly be careful how you tighten the router chuck to the SS shaft. I have found I have tightened it but when I tapped it with light hammer it was loose. I think I was tightening the router chuck on the edge of the flat instead of exactly on the flat. I think because the router chuck and a few others are easy to hold tightly this can happen.
I now mount the chuck and slowly tighten the set screw wiggleing the chuck back and forth until I'm sure it is fully on the shaft flat. Since doing this I haven't had a problem. However I have caught myself twice tightening on the edge of the flat which any vibration like routing would rock the chuck loose.
Ed
I checked all of the set screws in all of my spindle arbors this morning. This consists of four saw blade arbors, a wobble dado arbor and two router bit arbors (1/4" and 1/2"). That adds up to 7 arbors and 7 set screws.
All set screws appear to have a flat mating surface with no grooves or machining to make them concave.
All set screws have a shiny worn ring around the outside of the mating surface. A couple of the older ones are shiny all over the mating surface.
I also checked the spindle for contact wear marks. Most of the wear is right in the center, where one would expect it. There are two small shiny marks near the edge of the flat (clockwise from the center) where an arbor, when coming loose, would have marked it.
Here is what I have assumed to be true; 1) since all set screws are flat, the shiny ring around the outside is normal since they are tightened onto a tapered surface. 2) perhaps the threads (either on the screw or in the arbor) have become stretched. Therefore blue loctite is a good idea. 3) careful rocking of an arbor while tightening should be a normal procedure (as mentioned be Ed in Tampa)
Try again, russw543 this time using a small core box bit or a small "V" groove bit and a scrap board. Use push pads and a little body armor wouldn't hurt:rolleyes: . and maybe a pair of those Kevlar carving gloves;) More seriously - be careful!
P.S. (A Day Later) Found two more arbors (Shaping arbors) Same flat surface with same ring.
All set screws appear to have a flat mating surface with no grooves or machining to make them concave.
All set screws have a shiny worn ring around the outside of the mating surface. A couple of the older ones are shiny all over the mating surface.
I also checked the spindle for contact wear marks. Most of the wear is right in the center, where one would expect it. There are two small shiny marks near the edge of the flat (clockwise from the center) where an arbor, when coming loose, would have marked it.
Here is what I have assumed to be true; 1) since all set screws are flat, the shiny ring around the outside is normal since they are tightened onto a tapered surface. 2) perhaps the threads (either on the screw or in the arbor) have become stretched. Therefore blue loctite is a good idea. 3) careful rocking of an arbor while tightening should be a normal procedure (as mentioned be Ed in Tampa)
Try again, russw543 this time using a small core box bit or a small "V" groove bit and a scrap board. Use push pads and a little body armor wouldn't hurt:rolleyes: . and maybe a pair of those Kevlar carving gloves;) More seriously - be careful!
P.S. (A Day Later) Found two more arbors (Shaping arbors) Same flat surface with same ring.
Octogenarian's have an earned right to be a curmudgeon.
Chuck in Lancaster, CA
Chuck in Lancaster, CA
Shopsmith Set Screws
I learned more today about the types of set screws used by Shopsmith. Linda in Customer Service at Shopsmith took some time to verify that there are two types of ends on the set screws. The flat end set screws are designed are arbors and anything that that is removeable/adjustable, can be reused and comes in different lengths. The cupped end set screws (502051) with the cuts/teeth are used for places that are not being removed/replaced like the way tubes, control sheave, fan sheave and drive sleeve pulley. The help kit (515714) does contain the various set screws used by the Mark V. No reference was noted for the type of set screw with the pointed tip.
I still only use the setscrews sold by Shopsmith as they are a softer material and will not damage the quill shaft. I found in my stock that quite a few of the saw arbors and drill chucks have the cupped set screws installed. I believe the cupped set screws may damage the quill shaft due to the cuts/teeth on the end of the set screw.
Bill Mayo
I still only use the setscrews sold by Shopsmith as they are a softer material and will not damage the quill shaft. I found in my stock that quite a few of the saw arbors and drill chucks have the cupped set screws installed. I believe the cupped set screws may damage the quill shaft due to the cuts/teeth on the end of the set screw.
Bill Mayo
Hi,
Maybe we should have done this post on arbor day??
Anyway while we are on set screws I went and check a few of mine tonight. One thing is for sure they are not all alike, and I'm not talking lengths or cone point or flats. On two of my newer 520 type arbors they have a set screw which looks like it has a brass part on the bottom. I guess the class is flat but still a bit different then the rest of the dozen I looked at.
Ed
Maybe we should have done this post on arbor day??
Anyway while we are on set screws I went and check a few of mine tonight. One thing is for sure they are not all alike, and I'm not talking lengths or cone point or flats. On two of my newer 520 type arbors they have a set screw which looks like it has a brass part on the bottom. I guess the class is flat but still a bit different then the rest of the dozen I looked at.
Ed
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