Jointech - Caveat Emptor

vnapple · Post by **vnapple** » Thu Mar 04, 2010 7:16 am

I have learned some great tips here from those who have shared them, and I haven't had much to share until now. Others have had a good experience with Jointech, but I have not. So, I wanted to share my saga with this company in order to save others what I went through. Here is a condensed version:

I ordered a sawtrain system and digital lift from Jointech just before last Thanksgiving. Ernest answered my emailed questions until I placed my order, and then stopped answering the phone or my emails. I became concerned and sent a note to him in early December saying that I would cancel my order if he did not respond. He responded to that note with excuses and apologies, and I received my system within a week. Unfortunately, the "system" that was shipped to me was missing some key pieces, included parts from a different jig, contained miss-drilled parts that did not fit, and included a fence that had been dropped on one corner so that the face was not flat and attachments would not slide on the dovetail track.

Once again, it took several attempts to get a response when I informed Ernest of these problems. He said that he would ship the missing parts right out to me. One week later, I received a box of parts, but Ernest did not send me everything that he'd promised. It was now after Christmas, I was out $900 and did not have a usable system. So much for the gift boxes that I had hoped to make for my family. Ernest finally answered my email and said that he would ship the remaining parts to me via overnight. He failed on both counts. He shipped another short set of parts to me via ground.

It was now early January, and I had spent $900 on a pile of stuff that I could not use. I emailed Ernest and told him that I wanted to return his stuff without paying restocking or shipping fees. I heard nothing in response, so I contacted my credit card company to see what they could do. I received a credit for half of my money, and I still had a pile of unusable stuff taking up valuable space in my workshop.

It was now early February, and I finally heared from Ernest and arranged return shipping. He received the returns, told me that he would refund my money, and then stopped answering my emails.

It is now early March, and I am writing to inform my fellow Shopsmith users that they may encounter problems when dealing with Jointech. I contacted my credit card company and am waiting for a refund of the rest of my money. I figure that I spent at least 25 hours with this mess in one way or another since November, and I'll never get that time back. I will never spend another penny or second on Jointech. Since going through this, I have found from searching the internet that others have had similar problems when dealing with Ernest at Jointech - just Google "Jointech Ernest problems". Next time, I will go with Incra, since they have a reputation for good customer service.

kartoffelkopf · Post by **kartoffelkopf** » Thu Mar 04, 2010 9:34 am

Sorry to hear of your troubles with JT. -I purchased my system from them before their massive shake-up down there. At that point everything was stellar. (I will add that I, too, had *one* missing part, but it WAS overnighted.) I was very pleased with their customer service.

With that said, though, I have since (within the last couple years) had to place an order with them. Wrong parts shipped, incomplete orders, no responses… same story as above. I like my JT system a great deal and would not trade it for the world…*but their CS (or lack of it) is going to kill them. (Incra is no peach either, but that's another story.)

beeg · Post by **beeg** » Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:37 pm

Stories like this REALLY make ya appreciate CS @ SS.

Gene Howe · Post by **Gene Howe** » Thu Mar 04, 2010 4:59 pm

WOW!
I'm glad I got mine when I did. Most of my correspondence with Ernest was by phone. Love the system and hope their CS improves.
Gene

recurvearcher · Post by **recurvearcher** » Thu Mar 04, 2010 7:07 pm

I have been window shopping the Jointech and Incra systems for my SS2K. If I ever do take the expensive plunge, guess it will be with the Incra. That's a chuck of change to drop and get indifferent service.

fjimp · Post by **fjimp** » Fri Mar 05, 2010 4:45 pm

I found this discussion rather interesting. Although I have no desire to slam anyone. I visited a Jointech booth at a woodworking show last year. As someone who has owned Incra products for three or four years I felt the quality I was seeing that day was below that of Incra. I have placed several orders with Incra some thru Shopsmith and others directly with Incra. Mark at Incra is a jewel to work with. If I ask questions I receive straight answers. A couple of times he has suggested something different than I had planned on buying. His wisdom has saved me money. The two times an item arrived short a part or once a damaged part. The replacement arrived quickly and in perfect condition. Even with my good luck with Incra I am saddened to hear hard times falling on anyone. Jim

reible · Post by **reible** » Fri Mar 05, 2010 6:55 pm

Hi,

This is really bad news. I have the Jointech system and it has really performed for me. Even the customer service was good.

I did have to wait some months to get fence inserts, they had to go to a new company and start over on the design which took quite a while to work out. I was sympathetic with all the issues that happen when the owner died and the son in law took over and then the move and what appeared to be some cash flow problems all combined with a down turning economic situation here in America. I guess I was overly optimistic in what I thought seemed to be some signs of improvement in their situation about a year ago.

I would really hope they can stay afloat until until our countries economic situating improves and then they see better time ahead.

I have had incra products since back in the mid 80's and I do like there products but when it came time for me to get a system for the saw I liked the Jointech stuff better so that was what I purchased. It turned out to be just what I wanted and I have never regretted the purchase. I have added several other items on to the basic 520 system which have also proved to great additions. Can't say what is up with the company at this point but the product was top notch as was the customer service, hope they can get back there.

On the subject of incra I too have had issues with them, one of them was just last spring. Nothing like being charged 10% more then you should have and having to argue about that... final result was I got the 10% back and another 10% for my efforts. To be honest I just wish they would have got it right in the first place.

I guess to be on the safe side I better put in an order to Jointech soon just in case then end up not making it and I'll not be able to get those things on my wish list.

Ed

vnapple · Post by **vnapple** » Sat Mar 06, 2010 7:00 am

I suspect that the root of Jointech's problems have nothing to do with the economy. Has the recession affected how any of treat our neighbors? Although Ernest promised much and apologized profusely whenever he decided to answer my emails (I only got through on the phone one time, and my voicemails were never returned.), he delivered on nothing. Although the system's design seemed to hold promise, I never had more than a pile of unusable components after several months of my wasted time. I could have made that pile into a workable system by fabricating my own jigs, connectors, and fence inserts; and having the fence face trued at a machine shop, but I didn't think that I should have to do those things after spending $900 of my hard earned cash and wasting 25 hours of my time. Like I said, others may have had a different experience with this company in the past and may wish them well. But, I wish that I had not had this experience and want to warn others that they may face extreme frustration when dealing with this guy - and may ultimately wind up giving them an interest free loan while pulling their hair out. There are many better places than Jointech for one to extend charity.

Ed in Tampa · Post by **Ed in Tampa** » Sat Mar 06, 2010 9:13 am

Interesting sidebar to this story. Years ago I saw an ad for the Saw Train (jointech) that fit on a Shopsmith and ordered a catalog. I looked it over and thought it interesting but very expensive and at the time pre 510 you had to remove most of it to go into drill press mode and etc.
I more or less forgot about it.

About 6 months later I got a letter from the people telling me I had ordered on of their catalogs and hadn't ordered anything. I don't remember exactly what the letter said or how it was stated but it was insulting. The inference I got from the letter was there had to be something wrong with me to order a catalog and not place an order.

I kind of wrote the company off in my mind.

Then years later someone here on the forum raved about their Jointech and my interest was aroused. I don't remember what happened next but some one said something or I read something but in any case I got another red light and dropped the Jointech from all consideration.

Now after reading this I'm happy I did. Thanks for the feed back.

Personal opinion, the thing is way way over priced but I have proven over and over I'm cheap. However if you add up all the materials, machining and etc that goes into product I see less than $200 add profit, great idea uplift and etc and to me max price $525.

My opinion companies with this type of pricing will be the one that don't make it through the existing and forth coming economic situation. Only ones that will be left are the ones that understand buyer based (quality at a fair and reasonable price) marketing.

timster68 · Post by **timster68** » Tue Mar 23, 2010 1:12 pm

I have the Incra system on a Woodpecker router table, plus another Incra system for use on the Shopsmith. Couldn't be happier. Incra makes really good products. And I use their Rulers all the time.

-Tim