I need some help. I am unable to keep my extension tables aligned.
I know that the SS Manual states very clearly that if an extension table is aligned on the left side that it may be out of alignment when moved to the right side (and vice versa).
Further more, I know from experience that this is true. I am constantly having to reverse tables because the tubes will not move thru the rail assemblies. If I swap extension tables, all is well.
I have gone so far as marking the tables left extension, left floating, right extension... etc. This seems to work but....
I still don't understand why. Everything is aligned to a common reference point...the plane of the blade and the plane of the table top.
What am I missing?
Extension Table Alignment
Moderators: HopefulSSer, admin
Dusty - you have a 520 - I have a 510. I think the table(s) alignment is essentially the same though.
Let's start with the main table. ( Looks like the 520 has special instructions http://www.shopsmith.com/ownersite/prod ... adePkg.pdf )
You need to have the front rails aligned at right angles to the miter slots in order to properly set up the rip fence. This can be done with washers. The rails should also be aligned vertically to meet up with other tables and to give smoother movement of the rip fence. There isn't much movement vertically, but some.
Next, (with a tube through the main table) set up the extension table in the most used end and align the front rail. Next put in a floating table and repeat. Again, another floating table.
Now that the front rails are all aligned, slip a tube (or two) into the rear tubes. If the tube is too tight, re-align the rear tubes- main table first, as before. You may stop before achieving complete alignment on the back, but if the main table is aligned, you have a working arrangement - as long as the tubes fit and the floating tables are close to the same elevation as the main table. On mine, the floating tables are slightly lower than the main, but the front rails are near perfect. I use the long 5 foot tubes and first tighten the screws on the front of the main table before any others. Then align the extension table to the front tube. The rear rails simply go along for the ride, but they are close enough I never have problems with fitting and tightening tubes and can put the floaters in front to back or vice-versa.
The floating tables always fit and can be used for support as well as rip fence rails. I think that is because I always clamp the floating tables from the front first! If one of the floating tables sits in the make-up a little canted that's O.K as long as the rip fence is parallel to the blade. My rip fence on My 510 slides smoothly between tables.
I never have had an occasion where I had to fasten the rip fence to the back rail and clamp it onto the front. My back rails are used only for support and alignment. If you want to fool around a bit - I'd bet you can adjust all of the back rails to be pretty darned close to perfect also.
Good luck! and congrats on your cutoff support table!
Let's start with the main table. ( Looks like the 520 has special instructions http://www.shopsmith.com/ownersite/prod ... adePkg.pdf )
You need to have the front rails aligned at right angles to the miter slots in order to properly set up the rip fence. This can be done with washers. The rails should also be aligned vertically to meet up with other tables and to give smoother movement of the rip fence. There isn't much movement vertically, but some.
Next, (with a tube through the main table) set up the extension table in the most used end and align the front rail. Next put in a floating table and repeat. Again, another floating table.
Now that the front rails are all aligned, slip a tube (or two) into the rear tubes. If the tube is too tight, re-align the rear tubes- main table first, as before. You may stop before achieving complete alignment on the back, but if the main table is aligned, you have a working arrangement - as long as the tubes fit and the floating tables are close to the same elevation as the main table. On mine, the floating tables are slightly lower than the main, but the front rails are near perfect. I use the long 5 foot tubes and first tighten the screws on the front of the main table before any others. Then align the extension table to the front tube. The rear rails simply go along for the ride, but they are close enough I never have problems with fitting and tightening tubes and can put the floaters in front to back or vice-versa.
The floating tables always fit and can be used for support as well as rip fence rails. I think that is because I always clamp the floating tables from the front first! If one of the floating tables sits in the make-up a little canted that's O.K as long as the rip fence is parallel to the blade. My rip fence on My 510 slides smoothly between tables.
I never have had an occasion where I had to fasten the rip fence to the back rail and clamp it onto the front. My back rails are used only for support and alignment. If you want to fool around a bit - I'd bet you can adjust all of the back rails to be pretty darned close to perfect also.
Good luck! and congrats on your cutoff support table!
Octogenarian's have an earned right to be a curmudgeon.
Chuck in Lancaster, CA
Chuck in Lancaster, CA
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dusty
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Extension Table Alignment
I feel that the main tables and all its integral parts are right on.
In fact, the entire set up works great. Alignments are fine, fence slides from table to table no problem. Life is good.
Until I install an extension table or floating table (especially extension table) into the system somewhere other than where it was first aligned.
Said more simply. Left is Left. and Right is Right. If I move the Right Extension to the left side - tubes bind. If I move the Left Extension to the Right Side - tubes bind.
If I use both extension tables, I might not be able to install the 5' tube.
Here is the kicker. Put everything back where it was initially aligned and it works fine. Therefore, I have labeled the tables and they live where they were aligned.
Floating tables don't play into this at all. Like you implied, the floating table are just there if you need them.
Stop and think. A Shopsmith is delivered with a single extension table. The manual never discusses the system with two. I'm not sure but I don't believe there are pictures or line drawings with two. Maybe SS didn't intend for two.
In fact, the entire set up works great. Alignments are fine, fence slides from table to table no problem. Life is good.
Until I install an extension table or floating table (especially extension table) into the system somewhere other than where it was first aligned.
Said more simply. Left is Left. and Right is Right. If I move the Right Extension to the left side - tubes bind. If I move the Left Extension to the Right Side - tubes bind.
If I use both extension tables, I might not be able to install the 5' tube.
Here is the kicker. Put everything back where it was initially aligned and it works fine. Therefore, I have labeled the tables and they live where they were aligned.
Floating tables don't play into this at all. Like you implied, the floating table are just there if you need them.
Stop and think. A Shopsmith is delivered with a single extension table. The manual never discusses the system with two. I'm not sure but I don't believe there are pictures or line drawings with two. Maybe SS didn't intend for two.
"Making Sawdust Safely"
Dusty
Sent from my Dell XPS using Firefox.
Dusty
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Ed in Tampa
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Dustydusty wrote:I feel that the main tables and all its integral parts are right on.
In fact, the entire set up works great. Alignments are fine, fence slides from table to table no problem. Life is good.
Until I install an extension table or floating table (especially extension table) into the system somewhere other than where it was first aligned.
Said more simply. Left is Left. and Right is Right. If I move the Right Extension to the left side - tubes bind. If I move the Left Extension to the Right Side - tubes bind.
If I use both extension tables, I might not be able to install the 5' tube.
Here is the kicker. Put everything back where it was initially aligned and it works fine. Therefore, I have labeled the tables and they live where they were aligned.
Floating tables don't play into this at all. Like you implied, the floating table are just there if you need them.
Stop and think. A Shopsmith is delivered with a single extension table. The manual never discusses the system with two. I'm not sure but I don't believe there are pictures or line drawings with two. Maybe SS didn't intend for two.
I had the same problem plus when I moved my extension table from one end of the SS it also bound in the support sockets.
Since mine was a 520 I went back and checked every table rail with the guage block making sure they were dead on. Then I raised the casters on the SS and leveled my SS.
Then I went into the SS manual and did the way tube leveling. There is a set screw in the tie casting on the headstock end of the way tubes to do this.
I then aligned my table per Nicks instructions in thread called main table ribbing. http://www.shopsmith.net/forums/showthread.htm?t=131
I then adjusted the extension table to be in alignment to my main table using the SS manual. I then moved the extension table to other side of the machine and checked my adjustment. It bound as I tried to place it in the support socket. I found it very slightly off so I readjusted. Finally I got it to slip in the support socket holders and adjusted for both sides. One side does bind a little but nothing I can't live with.
After this I used the connector tubes and mounted my floating tables and such and everything lined up. I will say even a slight misadjustment anywhere and the it seems it gets telegraphed to the connector tubes big time.
I have since found out it helps to setup my SS in the same general area of the shop each time. I think if the floor isn't flat you can rack the SS enough that the connector tubes won't align.
I don't recall exactly but I think the way tube adjustment was probably the biggest factor. I remember unlocking my way tube and having one side floating, that is when I realized the SS was racked sitting where it was. I moved it until both tubes set flat then I did adjustment per the manual and I think that was the biggest single change.
Hope this helps
Ed
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dusty
- Platinum Member
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- Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2006 6:52 am
- Location: Tucson (Wildcat Country), Arizona
Extension Table Alignment
I feel that the main tables and all its integral parts are right on.
In fact, the entire set up works great. Alignments are fine, fence slides from table to table no problem. Life is good.
Until I install an extension table or floating table (especially extension table) into the system somewhere other than where it was first aligned.
Said more simply. Left is Left. and Right is Right. If I move the Right Extension to the left side - tubes bind. If I move the Left Extension to the Right Side - tubes bind.
If I use both extension tables, I might not be able to install the 5' tube.
Here is the kicker. Put everything back where it was initially aligned and it works fine. Therefore, I have labeled the tables and they live where they were aligned.
Floating tables don't play into this at all. Like you implied, the floating table are just there if you need them.
Stop and think. A Shopsmith is delivered with a single extension table. The manual never discusses the system with two. I'm not sure but I don't believe there are pictures or line drawings with two. Maybe SS didn't intend for two.
In fact, the entire set up works great. Alignments are fine, fence slides from table to table no problem. Life is good.
Until I install an extension table or floating table (especially extension table) into the system somewhere other than where it was first aligned.
Said more simply. Left is Left. and Right is Right. If I move the Right Extension to the left side - tubes bind. If I move the Left Extension to the Right Side - tubes bind.
If I use both extension tables, I might not be able to install the 5' tube.
Here is the kicker. Put everything back where it was initially aligned and it works fine. Therefore, I have labeled the tables and they live where they were aligned.
Floating tables don't play into this at all. Like you implied, the floating table are just there if you need them.
Stop and think. A Shopsmith is delivered with a single extension table. The manual never discusses the system with two. I'm not sure but I don't believe there are pictures or line drawings with two. Maybe SS didn't intend for two.
"Making Sawdust Safely"
Dusty
Sent from my Dell XPS using Firefox.
Dusty
Sent from my Dell XPS using Firefox.
Yep! Since I only have one - don't know the problem! But if everything works fine when your extension tables are at "home" - There's no problem.
Guess that's why SS made support legs. Which brings me to another question. If you ever lower the SS like you are thinking, will the support legs still fit?
Guess that's why SS made support legs. Which brings me to another question. If you ever lower the SS like you are thinking, will the support legs still fit?
Octogenarian's have an earned right to be a curmudgeon.
Chuck in Lancaster, CA
Chuck in Lancaster, CA
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Ed in Tampa
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- Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2006 12:45 am
- Location: North Tampa Bay area Florida
Dustydusty wrote:I feel that the main tables and all its integral parts are right on.
In fact, the entire set up works great. Alignments are fine, fence slides from table to table no problem. Life is good.
Until I install an extension table or floating table (especially extension table) into the system somewhere other than where it was first aligned.
Said more simply. Left is Left. and Right is Right. If I move the Right Extension to the left side - tubes bind. If I move the Left Extension to the Right Side - tubes bind.
If I use both extension tables, I might not be able to install the 5' tube.
Here is the kicker. Put everything back where it was initially aligned and it works fine. Therefore, I have labeled the tables and they live where they were aligned.
Floating tables don't play into this at all. Like you implied, the floating table are just there if you need them.
Stop and think. A Shopsmith is delivered with a single extension table. The manual never discusses the system with two. I'm not sure but I don't believe there are pictures or line drawings with two. Maybe SS didn't intend for two.
The fact that Shopsmith only delivers the machine with one extension table should tell you something. With one table you HAVE to be able to MOVE it from the left to the right and back and have it line up.
The fact your extension tables won't work in the alternate ends says something isn't aligned somewhere.
In my case I had the SS perfectly aligned but it was still racked and this caused my table tubes to bind. When I fixed the rack then the table tube bind went away.
When I converted to the 520 I would have sworn my Shopsmith was dead nuts on. But when I moved the extension table and passed a connector tube trough it's rail the connector tube was about 3/4 of the tube too high and to the left of the main table rail plus my extension table support tubes bound when I tried to move the extension table up in down in the tailstock end.
I asked for help on this forum and after a day of playing around doing what I said in my other post I got it so I could move my one extension table to either side of the SS and have the connector tube and floating table in perfect alignment with the main table rail. And the extension table support tube didn't bind when moved up or down in either side.
Without the slidding tables my five foot connector slides through my machine with the extension table in either side. If I mount the the two floating tables between the extension and the main again it connector slides fine.
However if your happy using the left table in the left side and the right table in the right side fantastic. I guess if I had two extension tables I wouldn't care if I couldn't trade them from side to side but since I only had one I had to solve the problem.
Ed
Hi,
Dusty you have ask a good question and I could attempt to answer but first I think maybe we should review what shopsmith says in the Mark V Pro System section (pages are labled with a C-#).
Start at C-29 Align the extension table. You that have access go ahead and read it but for those without it "For most projects, align the extension table on the right side, since it can usually be used when placed on the left side. However, once the extenson table is aligned on the right side, it cannot be transfer to the left side and still maintain precise alignment."
While they do have an error in the wording it should be clear that once aligned on the right it will not be aligned if you move it to the left side except in a exceptional cases of just plain getting lucky.
The table along with the top tubes, headstock, carriage, base arm, and tie bar are for all intent sitting on a plane. All of this is then attached to a second plane attached at the base arm pin and the other side at the head rest lock (lower section of the shopsmith). So the right side is on one plane and the left side is on a second plane.
I have had this problem from day one when I did the upgrade to a 520 so I ended up getting a second extension table and mounting it for use on the left side. I moved the studs to the other holes (second position so the longer over hang is opposite the right table thus making it easy to see which is right and which is left [Not sure if this is clear so ask if you don't understand what I'm saying]).
Another question is about the use of the various parts for setups... again go to page C-42, it shows a lot of positions and includes the use of both a right and a left extension at the same time.
Ed
Dusty you have ask a good question and I could attempt to answer but first I think maybe we should review what shopsmith says in the Mark V Pro System section (pages are labled with a C-#).
Start at C-29 Align the extension table. You that have access go ahead and read it but for those without it "For most projects, align the extension table on the right side, since it can usually be used when placed on the left side. However, once the extenson table is aligned on the right side, it cannot be transfer to the left side and still maintain precise alignment."
While they do have an error in the wording it should be clear that once aligned on the right it will not be aligned if you move it to the left side except in a exceptional cases of just plain getting lucky.
The table along with the top tubes, headstock, carriage, base arm, and tie bar are for all intent sitting on a plane. All of this is then attached to a second plane attached at the base arm pin and the other side at the head rest lock (lower section of the shopsmith). So the right side is on one plane and the left side is on a second plane.
I have had this problem from day one when I did the upgrade to a 520 so I ended up getting a second extension table and mounting it for use on the left side. I moved the studs to the other holes (second position so the longer over hang is opposite the right table thus making it easy to see which is right and which is left [Not sure if this is clear so ask if you don't understand what I'm saying]).
Another question is about the use of the various parts for setups... again go to page C-42, it shows a lot of positions and includes the use of both a right and a left extension at the same time.
Ed
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Ed in Tampa
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Edreible wrote:Hi,
Dusty you have ask a good question and I could attempt to answer but first I think maybe we should review what shopsmith says in the Mark V Pro System section (pages are labled with a C-#).
Start at C-29 Align the extension table. You that have access go ahead and read it but for those without it "For most projects, align the extension table on the right side, since it can usually be used when placed on the left side. However, once the extenson table is aligned on the right side, it cannot be transfer to the left side and still maintain precise alignment."
While they do have an error in the wording it should be clear that once aligned on the right it will not be aligned if you move it to the left side except in a exceptional cases of just plain getting lucky.
The table along with the top tubes, headstock, carriage, base arm, and tie bar are for all intent sitting on a plane. All of this is then attached to a second plane attached at the base arm pin and the other side at the head rest lock (lower section of the shopsmith). So the right side is on one plane and the left side is on a second plane.
I have had this problem from day one when I did the upgrade to a 520 so I ended up getting a second extension table and mounting it for use on the left side. I moved the studs to the other holes (second position so the longer over hang is opposite the right table thus making it easy to see which is right and which is left [Not sure if this is clear so ask if you don't understand what I'm saying]).
Another question is about the use of the various parts for setups... again go to page C-42, it shows a lot of positions and includes the use of both a right and a left extension at the same time.
Ed
I wish you have read that to us earlier a lot earlier. In fact I think it was you that gave me the procedure to get the extension table to work at both ends of my machine.
Perhaps not in any case someone posted the instructions and I followed them and they worked.However I also convinced myself to one day buy another extension table so I would never have to go through that precise alignment again.
Well Dusty I guess you have your answer SS even says it may not work. I wish I had those instructions about 6 monhts ago.
I never really noticed a problem with my alignment until I did the 520 upgrade. Then when I moved the extension table and tried to use the connector tube it was far enough off to cause a problem. Never was a problem with the 510. I figured the most precise table rails really magnified a problem that was always there. In any case I was able to adjust it so the extension worked on either side.
Thanks Ed for info!!!!
Ed
Hi Ed,
Just getting back up to speed on things here after being out of state for a family reunion and additional fun time and such things.... Two weeks of posting is too much for me so I'm only doing a hit and miss on things that sound especially interesting to me.
Yes you can get the alignment close and I was thinking this would be fine until earlier this year when I said to myself enough... they were on sale so just do it! Glad I did as now I've got more options for setups and no alignment problems with the extension tables. Now I have to decide if I want to do this same thing with my second shopsmith.... and well do I have the money to spend on it.
Hey if anyone at shopsmith is reading this, it might be a good time to have a special sale on these... I'm sure sales would be good after this thread.
Ed
Just getting back up to speed on things here after being out of state for a family reunion and additional fun time and such things.... Two weeks of posting is too much for me so I'm only doing a hit and miss on things that sound especially interesting to me.
Yes you can get the alignment close and I was thinking this would be fine until earlier this year when I said to myself enough... they were on sale so just do it! Glad I did as now I've got more options for setups and no alignment problems with the extension tables. Now I have to decide if I want to do this same thing with my second shopsmith.... and well do I have the money to spend on it.
Hey if anyone at shopsmith is reading this, it might be a good time to have a special sale on these... I'm sure sales would be good after this thread.
Ed