saw safety guard

[dusty]

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IMO the SS guard is not going to prevent kickback as the kick back pawls do nothing that I can see,, ie,,, if I rip a 3' board half way through then turn the saw off, I can pull the board back to me with no problem, yeah that is great in that it does not mark my wood but on my Craftsman TS the pawls would bite right in to prevent me pulling it back.

john

I really don't know what to suggest. This is one of those problems that you sort of have to see to understand.

I just came in from the shop after ripping up three or four pieces from the scrap box to see if I could back out from under the kickback pawls (after turning the saw off). I can not, even by backing out really slowly.

Check the pawl mechanism to see if it moves up and down easily and doesn't hang up elevated above the board you ripped. With nothing under the pawls, this mechanism should be at its lowest position.

With the saw off and the blade guard up so that you can see, slide a piece of 1/2" stock along side the blade and watch the pawls. Do this on both sides of the blade. Do you see the pawls rotate to the back and raise so as to rest on top of the stock. If they do, stop. Slide the 1/2" stock back out, watching the pawls. The pawls should begin to rotate back the other direction and capture the stock so that it will move no further.

In your photo, there appears to be more clearance between your blade and the riving knife than there is on mine.

I apologize for the poor quality photos; I'm having some camera problems. Hope you can see well enough.

[dusty]

Back to my original post - for those of you / us who do sometimes take the guard off consider the use of a seperate splitter/riving blade to keep the wood from closing and causing kickup / kickback.

If you really want to use a riving knife without the upper saw guard, Shopsmith sells one (complete with kickback pawls) as a replacement part.

http://www.shopsmith.com/ownersite/item ... tem=514367

[paulmcohen]

If you really want to use a riving knife without the upper saw guard, Shopsmith sells one (complete with kickback pawls) as a replacement part.

http://www.shopsmith.com/ownersite/item ... tem=514367

Do you have a picture of this thing, I have never seen one for the Shopsmith.

[dusty]

Do you have a picture of this thing, I have never seen one for the Shopsmith.

Do you have the Upper Saw Guard? If you do, 514367 is a part of the Upper Saw Guard. The metal piece that secures the saw guard to the table. If you don't have one, let me know and I'll post a picture.

[reible]

Well Ed I think you did a very good job addressing this, and I respect your opinion.

I immediately went out and tried what you said, cut a little more length into my test piece so I could get a little more jerk length, of course the piece I used had to be white oak:D .... I lifted the guard for the pic....

Maybe there is something wrong with my setup, I don't know but as hard as I could push or pull it ... no catch

Hi,

I didn't have time today to go out to the shop and try the "fast pull back" to see how true my statements were but I think the concept of how it should work was tried by dusty, and his seems to work.

I looked at the picture but for all I can see it looks like a normal set up. The pawl parts should move freely and not hang up, that is something you can check on.

I will get out and give my two a try and see what happens. I really work hard at not have kick-backs and as such I never seen mine in action it that situation. I would hate to find that they didn't work so maybe this is something we all should be looking at as part of an extended safety issue. I'll try to post results by mid day tomorrow.

BTW for those interested in saving money the plastic hood of the upper guard comes off without much work and goes back together the same way. Not sure if I have run into a situation where I didn't want the whole guard??? Anyway when I got my used 510 someone had managed to cut up the plastic part of the guard and it need replacing.... so that is how I know about taking them apart and putting them back together.

Ed

[paulmcohen]

Do you have the Upper Saw Guard? If you do, 514367 is a part of the Upper Saw Guard. The metal piece that secures the saw guard to the table. If you don't have one, let me know and I'll post a picture.

I have a 520 so I assume I have one. Is there a way to use part of it? Why would I want to?

[dusty]

paul'

I really don't believe you want to use the riving knife without the rest of the saw guard. Earlier in this thead, it was suggested that a splitter could be fabricated and used in lieu of the entire upper saw guard. I was just providing info on the riving knife which SS does sell as a replacement part.

If, for any reason, I NEEDED to use just the riving knife I would use 514367 which includes the kickback pawls rather than fabricating one. This could be done by simply removing the plastic guard from the Upper Saw Guard.

I DON'T ADVISE THIS. JUST AS I DON'T RECOMMEND RIPPING WITHOUT THE GUARD BEING IN PLACE.

[muncyjohn]

Thanks Dusty for the fine pictures, no problem seeing! Later today when I get up I will compare the positions as illustrated by your pics, it looks like the last one you have is where you were pulling back.

Glad to hear that yours is working fine, like I said maybe mine is faulty!

I ALSO DON'T RECOMMEND USING ANY SAW WITH OUT THE SAFETY GUARD but I know there are those who do, my son-in-law was one who paid the price a couple months ago, no cuts, KICKBACK physically tore the heck out of three fingers, now he has very limited use of those and came close to losing two of them.

I will show some pics later today of my riving knife without the guard that I made reference to, I don't recommend it to anyone EXCEPT those who insist on sometimes being stupid like me and don't use the guard for whatever reason, I have mine and I am sure they have theirs!

[Ed in Tampa]

The pawls on the side of the riving knife I believe are to prevent Fence pinch kickback. Fence pinch kick back is more of less when the fence pinches the work into the blade for some reason. (Either the fence is adjusted wrong, a feather board is being used wrong or operator error allowing the wood to wedge between the fence and blade)

Riving knifes themselves prevent wood pinch kickback and blade stalling. Many times when a piece of wood is cut instead of the saw kerf remaining stable it will either close back up or spread apart. When it closes it tends to pinch the blade. This can do one of two things stall the blade (many "my saw doesn't have enough power to cut", problems) or the closing wood can grab the back of the blade which is turning up and forward and lift the wood throwing it back at the operator.

The last kind of kickback and I think most likely for those that aren't using a saw guard is the inadvertant lifting of the wood and allowing it to touch the top of the spinning blade. This usually happens when cutting sheet goods and the waste piece starts to fall off the table but falls in such a way that the tail of the wood swings over the blade and is hit by it. From experience I can say it usually hits you in the gut and hard enough that you won't cut sheet stock without the saw guard. I had a piece of 1/8 inch ply smack me and imprint a perfect blood blister straight line across my belly, it later turned black and blue. I shudder to think what would have happened if a corner had hit me instead of the full edge.

In every example I have seen of this you can see a semi circle gouge in the wood that is thrown back into the operator.

Another kickback can happen when a long piece of lumber is being cut and is not properly supportted. It lifts off the table and reaction is to catch it and push it back down. That might be enough to slide it slightly and when it comes down it is on the top of the blade. (sent a 1x6x 6 ft long piece of heavy oak over my shoulder, past my ear and the length of the garage to stick like an arrow in the dry wall. I thanked God it hadn't hit me)

Needless to say I'm a riving knife/saw guard believer. I'm even planing to make a special riving knife that will be used for non through cuts. (dado, tendons, and such).

People can say what they want but I know a local cabinet shop that has pictures of results of not using the guards. They have a huge safety bulletin board with pictures, along with the picture is an explanation with proof pictures of what went wrong and how the guard would have prevented it.

Since the pictures went up the manager has not caught anyone making a cut without the guard in place and there hasn't been a cut or kickback injury in the shop.

To me the proof is in the pudding.
Ed

[reible]

Hi,

I really wanted to spend more time looking at this subject of the saw guard but I'm in the process of packing...

I did just a simple test and it doesn't take much to get the pawls to grab, at least on my shopsmith.

If you think yours is not working you might want to phone shopsmith and have a talk with someone there. If you find out anything of interest please post it here.

Ed