The Incra Miter 2000 Shopsmith Edition.
(To be posted in several parts.)
Currently priced about $195. By no means a cheap addition to your Shopsmith. So would you like to know a bit more about it? Maybe you already have one but don't use it or just never got around to trying it. Whatever the reason feel free to read this posting. It's not going to cover everything but if you have questions then ask them while you can.
I have had mine for a while, not long after they came out what ever year that was?? I got one from an Incra deal for if I remember right $112, and I think $8 postage or something like that. I had a project that required a lot of angle cuts and they needed to be very close to right on. Since the Incra is designed to give you down to ½ deg with positive stops I gave it a go. It did as they promised and the project went much faster then I even guess it would.
However a few things bugged me about the system. And to be honest I'm a big fan of the Shopsmith miter gauge. The Shopsmith gauge is “world class”, especial with the addition of the safety grip. As a result I spend most of my time using the Shopsmith miter gauge. Now, what I'm tell you is how I feel about this and your experiences may vary from that.
If you have no idea what this tool looks like you can find go to www.incra.com where they have details about the Miter 2000 (the Shopsmith edition has only a couple of miner changes from the one they sell for the rest of the market). They have videos too for those that like that sort of thing.
One of the nice features is that the built in scales and a special track system that lets you work to 1/32” in conjunctions with the stop (you can work finer then this if you really want to). Without going into a lot of details once you have established the distance from the cutting edge of the blade to the ruler you can make the rest of your cuts just by using the scales on the gauge. Of course if you change blades or the location of the blade via the quill you have to adjust for that. One of the nice things is that you can pull the stop off and do some other cutting not requiring the stop then go back and drop the stop back on as if it had never been off. Oh did I mention the miter bar is adjustable to fit the slot tight as in wobble free. I know some of you worry about this slop of the Shopsmith one but it has never seem to cause me any issues??
You may also add an auxiliary fence to it. To be honest that is almost a must. The face is very slick and to try and hold the wood in place without the aid of the auxiliary fence or auxiliary fence with sandpaper face is very difficult. I guess you could add the sandpaper to the main fence but I personally don't like that idea. So to some this might be a minus but since it is nice to support the out past the cut the auxiliary makes sense. It also most often gives you a better cut if the workpiece has a backer board so to me this issue is a wash.
Here if the parts that I don't like very much. Let's start with the first problem I came upon. The stop comes with “vertical stop arm”. This works well until you do a miter cut. The first cut is fine but the second cut you need to have the 45 deg outside edge against the fence and stopped by the stop arm. The stop arm doesn't sit against the fence so you don't have a positive stop. I made a work around and that got me by until I found that others had found this issue too and Incra had provide a solution that works well. If you get this system take a look at the section about “customizing your shop stop” and make one of the stops they show. As it turns out the second issue I had can also be solved by this same method. A second stop is provide by means of a horizontal stop rod. That was fine except it just catches the very top of a 3/4” piece of wood... in other words it is to high for me to trust on 3/4” wood and it will not work with anything thinner then that. Both of those things are design errors on a otherwise well made and done design.
More details to follow and by the way this was the wordy part of the post the second part will have pictures. Lot's of picture!
Within a short while I will give some details of how you can make your Shopsmith Incra system in to a much better system that is basically what Incra sells as the SE versions. That was the good news, the bad news is the what it is going to cost you. Sorry I can't help you with that.
Ed
Tool Review Incra Miter Gauge 2000
Moderators: HopefulSSer, admin
Tool Review Incra Miter Gauge 2000
{Knight of the Shopsmith} [Hero's don't wear capes, they wear dog tags]
The Incra Miter 2000 Shopsmith Edition.
(To be posted in several parts.)
Part 2
******************photos have been removed***********************
The photos are at:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/12199425@N02/sets/72157602123322657/
For the purpose of this posting we will start at the upper left corner and work across then down to the next row just like if you were reading a book. You might want to have two windows open or two tabs... how ever you want to do it. There are a total of 30 pictures. And if you click a picture it will enlarge so you can see it better but they I think you might already know this.
Picture 1 is of the Incra Miter 2000 Shopsmith Edition. So you get an idea of the size picture 2 has the shopsmith miter gauge in a side by side.
The protractor parts are very different between the two systems photo 3. The Incra is laser cut and has positive stops at each deg as shown in photo 4. Check out the teeth and the lock if you have not seen them yet. The lever is locked as well as the head so it stays where you put it.
As was mentioned the rulers are very easy to use after the initial adjustment for blade position. They slide but do not slip out of position, if you're worried you can tape them in position. The scale is shown in photo 5. If you happen to have the old Incra positioner that Shopsmith sold that fit on the old over head router table to name a few uses, it had the same scale system, so it has been around for a while.
The stop comes apart and is designed to be spaced out from the fence enough to allow the use of an auxiliary fence, photo 6 will give you an idea of how that works. The next 2 photos shows what that auxiliary fence might look like.
As I mentioned in the previous post the stop has a stop rod, that can be seen in photo 9. A little later I'll show you how to do a very fine adjustment to a cut using the stop rod. I'll also show the “issue” I had with it later in the post.
By the way if you look at the protractor head you see the 1 deg settings, if you're interested sometime at a later date I'll show you how to do the ½ deg settings... I forgot to take pictures of that... sorry. Anyway photo 10 give you a closer look at the head.
I have been preconditioned to use the miter gauge in the left slot and that fells the best to me. I tend to feel more comfortable safer working that way. How ever if you mount the miter 2000 on this side you can see the result of how it fits. I over come this by adding one of the floating tables to that side. If you check photo 11 you can see this. Please also note this is not a “real” set up and no cutting or woodworking technique is being shown... this is just for the pictures and general idea of how this looks... and don't worry no wood was damaged during the picture taking process.
The better fit seems to be to the right side as is shown in photo 12. The point is I guess it will work on either side and you get to pick how you want to do it.
The next group of shots will be showing something that you have to be aware of if you want to use one of these and not cut the end of it off. If we start at a 90 deg. To the blade as is shown in photo 13 look what happens when the miter gauge is set to 30 deg in photo 14. I tend to not do bevel cuts all that much on the Shopsmith but if you want to do them you will want have to have the miter gauge mounted to the right... keep that in mind. Anyway what I do is set the gauge at 30 deg then adjust the fence as shown in photo 15. Another shot of that is in the next photo and then in photo 17 you can see what it looks like when back to 90 deg of the blade. I should mention that two screws are loosened to move the fence and you can move it along it's whole length within reason.
Now I'll show you the “issues” I discussed in the first posting. Remember these are easy to fix and Incra has the solutions in the booklet that comes with the gauge. Just remember to do the reading and make the pieces you need. Rather then go over this all again just look at the photos 18 through 24 it should be easy to figure out for you.
Now lets get into some numbers to impress your fellow woodworkers. Lets say that you have done all the adjustments and when you set the stop at 6” the cut piece of wood as right on the money at 6”. Now if you tell your buddies that you found out you need to make the piece 5.987” and did it on your Shopsmith they will be impressed right? Yea we all know we really don't need it that close but follow the process with me and then you can see that yes it can really be done (sort of). You start out by setting the stop at the 6” position. Bring the stock up to the stop rod, see photo 25. Now take your feeler gauge and find the .013” one (6.000 - .013 = 5.987). You put the feeler gauge between the stop rod and the wood as shown in photo 26. Clamp the wood to the fence in this position as shown in photo 27. Now take the feeler gauge out and loosen the screw that positions the stop rod photo 28. Snug the stop rod to the workpiece photo 29, then tighten the stop rod in that position, see photo 30. Now cut the 6 pieces you need and reverse the process to get back to having the stop at 6” again. Yes you can go the other way to make the piece longer by clamping it first then loosen the stop rod and putting the feeler gauge in etc etc. Yea, I really need to have that piece 6.013” so I use my Shopsmith... just don't give them the details of how to do it....
I bet you can hardly wait for the next installment right??
Ed
(To be posted in several parts.)
Part 2
******************photos have been removed***********************
The photos are at:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/12199425@N02/sets/72157602123322657/
For the purpose of this posting we will start at the upper left corner and work across then down to the next row just like if you were reading a book. You might want to have two windows open or two tabs... how ever you want to do it. There are a total of 30 pictures. And if you click a picture it will enlarge so you can see it better but they I think you might already know this.
Picture 1 is of the Incra Miter 2000 Shopsmith Edition. So you get an idea of the size picture 2 has the shopsmith miter gauge in a side by side.
The protractor parts are very different between the two systems photo 3. The Incra is laser cut and has positive stops at each deg as shown in photo 4. Check out the teeth and the lock if you have not seen them yet. The lever is locked as well as the head so it stays where you put it.
As was mentioned the rulers are very easy to use after the initial adjustment for blade position. They slide but do not slip out of position, if you're worried you can tape them in position. The scale is shown in photo 5. If you happen to have the old Incra positioner that Shopsmith sold that fit on the old over head router table to name a few uses, it had the same scale system, so it has been around for a while.
The stop comes apart and is designed to be spaced out from the fence enough to allow the use of an auxiliary fence, photo 6 will give you an idea of how that works. The next 2 photos shows what that auxiliary fence might look like.
As I mentioned in the previous post the stop has a stop rod, that can be seen in photo 9. A little later I'll show you how to do a very fine adjustment to a cut using the stop rod. I'll also show the “issue” I had with it later in the post.
By the way if you look at the protractor head you see the 1 deg settings, if you're interested sometime at a later date I'll show you how to do the ½ deg settings... I forgot to take pictures of that... sorry. Anyway photo 10 give you a closer look at the head.
I have been preconditioned to use the miter gauge in the left slot and that fells the best to me. I tend to feel more comfortable safer working that way. How ever if you mount the miter 2000 on this side you can see the result of how it fits. I over come this by adding one of the floating tables to that side. If you check photo 11 you can see this. Please also note this is not a “real” set up and no cutting or woodworking technique is being shown... this is just for the pictures and general idea of how this looks... and don't worry no wood was damaged during the picture taking process.
The better fit seems to be to the right side as is shown in photo 12. The point is I guess it will work on either side and you get to pick how you want to do it.
The next group of shots will be showing something that you have to be aware of if you want to use one of these and not cut the end of it off. If we start at a 90 deg. To the blade as is shown in photo 13 look what happens when the miter gauge is set to 30 deg in photo 14. I tend to not do bevel cuts all that much on the Shopsmith but if you want to do them you will want have to have the miter gauge mounted to the right... keep that in mind. Anyway what I do is set the gauge at 30 deg then adjust the fence as shown in photo 15. Another shot of that is in the next photo and then in photo 17 you can see what it looks like when back to 90 deg of the blade. I should mention that two screws are loosened to move the fence and you can move it along it's whole length within reason.
Now I'll show you the “issues” I discussed in the first posting. Remember these are easy to fix and Incra has the solutions in the booklet that comes with the gauge. Just remember to do the reading and make the pieces you need. Rather then go over this all again just look at the photos 18 through 24 it should be easy to figure out for you.
Now lets get into some numbers to impress your fellow woodworkers. Lets say that you have done all the adjustments and when you set the stop at 6” the cut piece of wood as right on the money at 6”. Now if you tell your buddies that you found out you need to make the piece 5.987” and did it on your Shopsmith they will be impressed right? Yea we all know we really don't need it that close but follow the process with me and then you can see that yes it can really be done (sort of). You start out by setting the stop at the 6” position. Bring the stock up to the stop rod, see photo 25. Now take your feeler gauge and find the .013” one (6.000 - .013 = 5.987). You put the feeler gauge between the stop rod and the wood as shown in photo 26. Clamp the wood to the fence in this position as shown in photo 27. Now take the feeler gauge out and loosen the screw that positions the stop rod photo 28. Snug the stop rod to the workpiece photo 29, then tighten the stop rod in that position, see photo 30. Now cut the 6 pieces you need and reverse the process to get back to having the stop at 6” again. Yes you can go the other way to make the piece longer by clamping it first then loosen the stop rod and putting the feeler gauge in etc etc. Yea, I really need to have that piece 6.013” so I use my Shopsmith... just don't give them the details of how to do it....
I bet you can hardly wait for the next installment right??
Ed
{Knight of the Shopsmith} [Hero's don't wear capes, they wear dog tags]
Miter Gauge 2000 (SE)
This is the last part of this posting.
Incra doesn't sell them, Shopsmith doesn't sell them, and the only way to get one as of now is to read this post and be willing to spend some more money.
What do I mean with the (SE)? I'm talking about taking the Incra 2000 Miter Gauge for a Shopsmith and upgraded with Incra parts so it has the new flip stops and the andTelescoping fence. Now you have a 2000 (SE), something a cut above the old one. (SE like in Special Edition)
If you haven't done it yet now might be a good time to go to the Incra web site and look a what they offer. You can't order the parts there but you can find out what you need to order and a list of dealers. I know what I paid but I'll keep that to the end as I want you to look at what you get before you decide it costs to much.
The pictures are at:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/12199425@N02/sets/72157602116483578/
There are 11 of them there so lets get started.
The fence that comes on the Shopsmith version is an 18” model, and that is a bit short. Of course if it gets to long well that can get in the way. What I decided was a good compromise was to get one that was the same basic length but would extend to 31”. The photo line us is like the one in the last post so take a look at the old fence and the new fence. Photo 1 is the backs and photo 2 is the fronts. The new fence is just a little taller the the old one. Photo 3 rather looks like the new fence is about to eat the old one... and it does performance wise.
In photos 4 and 5 you see the fence with the telescoping feature showing it self off. Having the extra length is nice and still having it able to be compact is great. Now if you want something longer they have those too... and yes they cost more too.
The “issues” I talked about are fixed with this version. Check photo 6 to see how it all fits together now. Photos 7 show how it swings up and away. Photos 8 and 9 show that the miter edge has no way of slipping under anything and you don't need to make extra parts to have it work right. Glad they made that change. You can also see that the 3/4” problem is gone as well, it gets right down on the table now.
The nice thing about the flip stops is when you find you need to trim a end off or get rid of a knot or bad spot on your work piece. Get the stop out of the way make your adjustment then flip it down and cut to length. Having a second stop can be handy so they give you a set of two shorter rods to use in place of the one longer one. With the two rods you can flip them up one at a time as you see fit. This is pictured in photos 10 and 11.
Now we come to the price point. The flipshopstop and the 18”-31” telescoping flipfence will run you just over $80 (includes postage). For those of us who already own the miter 2000 and paid about $120 or so for it, we end up with a $200ish miter gauge. If you don't find or wait for a sale and get miter 2000 from Shopsmith this is a $275 item by the time you are done. If you want the longer telescoping fence 27” to 49” it will cost you only about another $15 over the 18”-31” one.
So a quick review. You get a slop free miter bar. You get a gauge that is very easy to set to with in ½ deg and you can do it very quickly. You can use the fence scales to save time. You have stop options and precession and repeatability. You have a very expensive miter gauge. Is it worth it? It depends on what your doing... when I got mine I save a couple of days of effort just because of the easy of changing angles.... had I been doing this for a profit it would have paid for it self right then. It all comes down to what you need and what you can afford.
You can shop around but here is a place to start:
http://www.woodpeck.com/flipstopfence.html
Ed
This is the last part of this posting.
Incra doesn't sell them, Shopsmith doesn't sell them, and the only way to get one as of now is to read this post and be willing to spend some more money.
What do I mean with the (SE)? I'm talking about taking the Incra 2000 Miter Gauge for a Shopsmith and upgraded with Incra parts so it has the new flip stops and the andTelescoping fence. Now you have a 2000 (SE), something a cut above the old one. (SE like in Special Edition)
If you haven't done it yet now might be a good time to go to the Incra web site and look a what they offer. You can't order the parts there but you can find out what you need to order and a list of dealers. I know what I paid but I'll keep that to the end as I want you to look at what you get before you decide it costs to much.
The pictures are at:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/12199425@N02/sets/72157602116483578/
There are 11 of them there so lets get started.
The fence that comes on the Shopsmith version is an 18” model, and that is a bit short. Of course if it gets to long well that can get in the way. What I decided was a good compromise was to get one that was the same basic length but would extend to 31”. The photo line us is like the one in the last post so take a look at the old fence and the new fence. Photo 1 is the backs and photo 2 is the fronts. The new fence is just a little taller the the old one. Photo 3 rather looks like the new fence is about to eat the old one... and it does performance wise.
In photos 4 and 5 you see the fence with the telescoping feature showing it self off. Having the extra length is nice and still having it able to be compact is great. Now if you want something longer they have those too... and yes they cost more too.
The “issues” I talked about are fixed with this version. Check photo 6 to see how it all fits together now. Photos 7 show how it swings up and away. Photos 8 and 9 show that the miter edge has no way of slipping under anything and you don't need to make extra parts to have it work right. Glad they made that change. You can also see that the 3/4” problem is gone as well, it gets right down on the table now.
The nice thing about the flip stops is when you find you need to trim a end off or get rid of a knot or bad spot on your work piece. Get the stop out of the way make your adjustment then flip it down and cut to length. Having a second stop can be handy so they give you a set of two shorter rods to use in place of the one longer one. With the two rods you can flip them up one at a time as you see fit. This is pictured in photos 10 and 11.
Now we come to the price point. The flipshopstop and the 18”-31” telescoping flipfence will run you just over $80 (includes postage). For those of us who already own the miter 2000 and paid about $120 or so for it, we end up with a $200ish miter gauge. If you don't find or wait for a sale and get miter 2000 from Shopsmith this is a $275 item by the time you are done. If you want the longer telescoping fence 27” to 49” it will cost you only about another $15 over the 18”-31” one.
So a quick review. You get a slop free miter bar. You get a gauge that is very easy to set to with in ½ deg and you can do it very quickly. You can use the fence scales to save time. You have stop options and precession and repeatability. You have a very expensive miter gauge. Is it worth it? It depends on what your doing... when I got mine I save a couple of days of effort just because of the easy of changing angles.... had I been doing this for a profit it would have paid for it self right then. It all comes down to what you need and what you can afford.
You can shop around but here is a place to start:
http://www.woodpeck.com/flipstopfence.html
Ed
{Knight of the Shopsmith} [Hero's don't wear capes, they wear dog tags]
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a1gutterman
- Platinum Member
- Posts: 3653
- Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 12:45 am
- Location: "close to" Seattle
Miter Gauge 2000 (SE)
Thank you Ed, for the very descriptive review. It is very informative. I, for one, appreciate the efforts that you make. Keep up the good work!
Tim
Buying US made products will help keep YOUR job or retirement funds safer.
Buying US made products will help keep YOUR job or retirement funds safer.
-
dusty
- Platinum Member
- Posts: 21371
- Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2006 6:52 am
- Location: Tucson (Wildcat Country), Arizona
Miter Gauge 2000
Thanks Ed. Your review of the Incra Miter Gauge was most informative. The Incra has been on my want list for quite some time; however, it is not #1. My want list is quite long.
The photos that you provide really reinforce your comments and are very valuable. Keep up the good work.
The photos that you provide really reinforce your comments and are very valuable. Keep up the good work.
"Making Sawdust Safely"
Dusty
Sent from my Dell XPS using Firefox.
Dusty
Sent from my Dell XPS using Firefox.
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Ed in Tampa
- Platinum Member
- Posts: 5830
- Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2006 12:45 am
- Location: North Tampa Bay area Florida
Nice job Ed! Thanks!
Now I wonder if anyone has/will design a mitre fence with those features for the SS mitre guage.
I'll wager with all the talent we have on this forum someone can design and build a mitre fence that attaches to the SS mitre gauge that duplicates most or not all the features you specified.
Ed
Now I wonder if anyone has/will design a mitre fence with those features for the SS mitre guage.
I'll wager with all the talent we have on this forum someone can design and build a mitre fence that attaches to the SS mitre gauge that duplicates most or not all the features you specified.
Ed
Is it possible to buy Shopsmith-size miter bars with which to retrofit a 'standard' Incra? There are Miter 1000SE's on ebay for ~$125
Apparently you can buy Incra's miter fence (in various lengths) and adjusting stop as separate items for not too many $$$- attaching them to the SS protractor head I reckon would be a breeze- couple of T-nuts and knobs.Now I wonder if anyone has/will design a mitre fence with those features for the SS mitre guage.
As I noted in another thread, Incra, feeling sorry for us will sell a SS dedicated miterbar- Two were about $53 shipped. They are drilled and tapped for the 2000. If you are handy, you can adapt. Centerpunch, drill and tap and that does it.mt PS- on that auction site look for seller 8020- every aluminum extrusion for fences you could want.
1983 Mark V- beltsander, jigsaw, Stripsander,jointer, bandsaw-double carriage and tables with molders and drums, Over Arm Pin Routers(Freestanding x 2)Second Mark V.