Shop building questions

[heathicus]

Finally getting around to building my shop after more than a year of not having one. I have a few general design type questions. My shop will be 12'x24'. My dad gave me enough lumber and metal to build it, but the rest is up to me and I'm still on a tight budget.

Construction
I'm building it on runners so it can be moved in the future. I'll have two runners (I couldn't find anything bigger than a 4"x4" of suitable length, so I have a 4"x4" plus a 2"x4" to make a 4"x6" - all treated). How should the runners be spaced? I'm thinking 4' from outside edges to each runner and 4' between runners. (Floor joists will be 2"x6" spaced 16" apart. Flooring is 3/4" OSB.)

Speaking of treated lumber, I happened to notice that the nails I have specifically say "not for use with treated lumber." Why not? What's going to happen if they are used with treated lumber?

Lighting
Lowes has some 4' long, 2-light "shop light" fixtures for about $10. How many and in what configuration would be best? I was thinking 6 of the fixtures arranged in 3 pairs. Each pair placed end-to-end (making 8' of lighting) parallel with the 12' wall (so 2' from each end of the light to the wall). Then each pair 6' apart along the length of the 24' wall (so 6' from the 12' wall to the first row of lights, 6' to the second row of lights, 6' to the third row of lights, and 6' to the opposite 12' wall). Did that description make sense? Any other recommendations? Would another arrangement be best? Could I do with less lights?

Electrical
My plan for electrical outlets is to have one in the floor about where my table saw and outfeed table/workbench will be. Then outlets on the wall 6' apart from each other. What height would be good for the outlets? Standard housing height seems a little low for a workshop, so I was thinking "about waist high." Is that functional? Any hazards with that height? Higher? Lower? Too many outlets? Too few?

I have a breaker box with 4 20amp breakers. I was planning one circuit for lights (using the breaker box for the light switch). One for half the outlets. One for the other half of the outlets. And one dedicated to my air compressor, future dust collector and maybe a couple outside outlets (that last idea just occurred to me). Is that sufficient?

Interior walls might be outside the budget for now. Exposed studs aren't going to bother me. But I'm open to suggestions for cheap options.

I realize these are basic questions and I will have some experienced people helping me on construction day(s). I just want to be prepared.

[JPG]

Finally getting around to building my shop after more than a year of not having one. I have a few general design type questions. My shop will be 12'x24'. My dad gave me enough lumber and metal to build it, but the rest is up to me and I'm still on a tight budget.

Construction
I'm building it on runners so it can be moved in the future. I'll have two runners (I couldn't find anything bigger than a 4"x4" of suitable length, so I have a 4"x4" plus a 2"x4" to make a 4"x6" - all treated). How should the runners be spaced? I'm thinking 4' from outside edges to each runner and 4' between runners. (Floor joists will be 2"x6" spaced 16" apart. Flooring is 3/4" OSB.) 24' skids? I assume 12' joists are much cheaper than 24' ones.

Speaking of treated lumber, I happened to notice that the nails I have specifically say "not for use with treated lumber." Why not? What's going to happen if they are used with treated lumber? I believe the treated lumber is corrosive to 'untreated steel'

Lighting
Lowes has some 4' long, 2-light "shop light" fixtures for about $10. How many and in what configuration would be best? I was thinking 6 of the fixtures arranged in 3 pairs. Each pair placed end-to-end (making 8' of lighting) parallel with the 12' wall (so 2' from each end of the light to the wall). Then each pair 6' apart along the length of the 24' wall (so 6' from the 12' wall to the first row of lights, 6' to the second row of lights, 6' to the third row of lights, and 6' to the opposite 12' wall). Did that description make sense? Any other recommendations? Would another arrangement be best? Could I do with less lights? Lighting seems reasonable fir starters. I would not use a breaker for a 'switch' unless rated for switch use. Mount a handi-box on the side of the panel with a switch.

Electrical
My plan for electrical outlets is to have one in the floor about where my table saw and outfeed table/workbench will be. Then outlets on the wall 6' apart from each other. What height would be good for the outlets? Standard housing height seems a little low for a workshop, so I was thinking "about waist high." Is that functional? Any hazards with that height? Higher? Lower? Too many outlets? Too few? I like that 'plan'(6', waist high)

I have a breaker box with 4 20amp breakers. I was planning one circuit for lights (using the breaker box for the light switch). One for half the outlets. One for the other half of the outlets. And one dedicated to my air compressor, future dust collector and maybe a couple outside outlets (that last idea just occurred to me). Is that sufficient?

Interior walls might be outside the budget for now. Exposed studs aren't going to bother me. But I'm open to suggestions for cheap options.

I realize these are basic questions and I will have some experienced people helping me on construction day(s). I just want to be prepared.

I am not going to ask you what is feeding the 4 pole box. You do need to reconsider the feed etc. to a 'portable' building.

[heathicus]

24' skids? I assume 12' joists are much cheaper than 24' ones.

Actually 26' long. 1' extending on either end. That's what my dad recommended to make it easier to move in the future. The skids are assembled from a 2"x4" nailed to a 4"x4" making a 4"x6".

I believe the treated lumber is corrosive to 'untreated steel'

Corrosive in what method and to what severity? Visually? Structurally?

Lighting seems reasonable fir starters. I would not use a breaker for a 'switch' unless rated for switch use. Mount a handi-box on the side of the panel with a switch.

A breaker being rated for switch use is new info to me. What is the danger of using a breaker not rated for switch use as a switch? What is a handi-box? My breakers have "SWD" stamped on the switch under the "20." What does that mean?

I am not going to ask you what is feeding the 4 pole box. You do need to reconsider the feed etc. to a 'portable' building.

My dad (yeah, he's helping me out a LOT here) has the wire to run from my electrical pole/outside breaker box to the building. I don't know the specs of the wire, but it's the proper wire for that purpose. I'll have 2 legs of 110 - two breakers on each leg. The building will be about 15' to 20' from the pole.

[JPG]

I think the corrosive 'issue' is that the nails come loose.

I do not know what the lettering on the breaker means. A handi-box is designed for exposed work and is large enough for one standard device. It can be mounded with an off set (I forget what they are called).

The box needs to have a main breaker ahead of the individual circuit breakers, and the building needs a ground(8' rod usually). The wire to the building needs to be capable of 40A and be hard drawn copper intended for outside 'drop' use.

The 'pole' a temporary service, or something else?

P.S. the issue with using a non-switch rated breaker is durability. Unless designed for use as a switch, they wear out quickly.

[robinson46176]

Have fun building it.
Just my opinions.
I will never buy any more of those cheap "shop lights"... Just buy the proper boxes and those very inexpensive porcelain sockets. I like the ones with a built in plug-in point. Sometimes you need another place to plug in another light or maybe some Christmas lights (yes I put Xmas lights in my shops ). Then go buy some of the 150 watt equivalent CPF's. You will be amazed at what 4 to 6 of them will do. They do NOT flicker and while it takes a minute or so for them to warm up they will get full bright even at zero temps.
I would "ALWAYS" split the light circuit. You do not want to be standing there in a pitch black shop after a breaker trips holding onto an awkward hunk of wood that is still engaged with a still running major power tool. There is no reason that the lights cannot be on the same circuits as the other stuff as long as they are split.
I like my outlets at about 4' up.
Inside walls: You couldn't pay me to use drywall in a shop... I have become fond of 1/2" (OK, 7/16") OSB for such walls. The strength difference is huge and the price is near the same. Do treat yourself to some nice washable satin or semi-gloss paint. At many places (Lowes and Wal-mart I know about here) always have a bunch of miss-mixed paint the customers order then decide is just not quite right and they sell it at huge discounts. Wal-mart here has $25 miss-mixed paint stacked back for about $5 a gallon. I intend to pick up some (I don't care about the color) to use as a seal coat on the backside of some siding. Even if you decide to not line the building right now still treat yourself to some paint. Nothing drab or dark, a light color or even white will really help with lighting.
I have become very fond of French cleats at several heights around the walls.

Have fun.


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[heathicus]

Thanks Farmer. That's good feedback, especially regarding the lights (I already have a "NO drywall!" philosophy!). What are CPFs? I know what CFLs are. And I absolutely hate them. I will not buy one until forced to after I go through my stockpile of incandescents. I hate the light from them and they hurt my eyes (as well as it being a matter of principle). But I don't mind the long tube fluorescent lights. The ceiling joists will be exposed, at least for a while. I plan on using some of that area for storage, hanging "stuff", etc.

[JPG]

Thanks Farmer. That's good feedback, especially regarding the lights (I already have a "NO drywall!" philosophy!). What are CPFs? I know what CFLs are. And I absolutely hate them. I will not buy one until forced to after I go through my stockpile of incandescents. I hate the light from them and they hurt my eyes (as well as it being a matter of principle). But I don't mind the long tube fluorescent lights. The ceiling joists will be exposed, at least for a while. I plan on using some of that area for storage, hanging "stuff", etc.

There are cfls and there are cfls. The characteristics vary widely.

Principle? A short time ago they were too expensive, and unreliable.

As a result of the pending 'mandate' both those negative factors have been greatly diminished.

The larger ones seem to me to be bright enough, soon enough, color reasonable, and lastly cost much less to operate.

Have you tried leds yet? They are coming!

I kinda agree with farmer re the 10$ 'shop' light. You can buy a lot of light bulbs for 10$, and looking forward, whatever comes along will I believe be usable in those old fashioned edison screw base sockets(with outlet and I would add, A PULL CHAIN SWITCH so that ALL would not need to be on when any is on).

[heathicus]

It's that "mandate" that I have a problem with.

That being said, traditional light sockets is something to think about.

[JPG]

It's that "mandate" that I have a problem with.

That being said, traditional light sockets is something to think about.

I realized 'that' was the 'issue', but felt a need to point the 'good' things resulting from it.

I still dislike guvmnt forced change.

[charlese]

Electrical
My plan for electrical outlets is to have one in the floor about where my table saw and outfeed table/workbench will be.....

Is a floor outlet a good idea? How can you prevent sawdust from eventually packing into the duplex and possibly causing a fire?