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Dust Collection
Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:03 am
by mrhart
I was thinking of mounting my DC in the corner of the garage and hanging pvc across the ceiling with flex hose drops in a couple places. What do you all use for the hardpipe? Would 2" pvc work or is there a better product. What about home central vac pipe? (thinner I think). I did notice that the 2" pvc does not match up well diameter wise, with the standard SS hose.
Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:44 am
by JPG
mrhart wrote:I was thinking of mounting my DC in the corner of the garage and hanging pvc across the ceiling with flex hose drops in a couple places. What do you all use for the hardpipe? Would 2" pvc work or is there a better product. What about home central vac pipe? (thinner I think). I did notice that the 2" pvc does not match up well diameter wise, with the standard SS hose.
3" PVC
See Nick for method to attach hose.
http://www.shopsmithacademy.com/SS_Archives/SS109/SS109_Dust_Collection.htm
Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 9:04 am
by mrhart
Does it lose suck power if you upsize it like that?
Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 2:18 pm
by JPG
mrhart wrote:Does it lose suck power if you upsize it like that?
Please define 'suck power!:D
Static pressure is reduced by restricting air flow(tubes, elbows, tees, hoses, ..).
Flow velocity is decreased by increasing duct size for a given flow volume(and vice versa).
Flow volume is determined by the motor, impeller, and everything else above(and maybe some other things as well)
A 3" pipe will have less static pressure drop, but will have less velocity.
3" pipe is sturdier than hose and easier to 'mount/secure'.
So IMHO keep is all as short and as straight as possible(static pressure). If using the ss dc keep it all 3" or less(flow velocity).
My current thinking is a single 3" pvc from dc in corner over head to a centrally located down pipe to a hose connected dust deputy mounted on an old shop-vac drum etc. and long hose to the spt being used. The power switch for the dc would be mounted at the lower end of the down tube.
Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 4:29 pm
by mrhart
[quote="JPG40504"]Please define 'suck power!:D
Suck Power defined: the ability of a designated "suck center" to relocate undesirable temporarily airborne particles to a remote contained environment efficiently to prevent respiration and/or marital issues.
Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 4:39 pm
by mrhart
My current thinking is a single 3" pvc from dc in corner over head to a centrally located down pipe to a hose connected dust deputy mounted on an old shop-vac drum etc. and long hose to the spt being used. The power switch for the dc would be mounted at the lower end of the down tube.[/quote]
So for my understanding, if the DC was in the corner of the garage and one out let could be plumbed horizontal (about 6-8') with hardpipe--then a flex connector to ss1 and its configuration. The second outlet on the DC overhead (6' to first drop-10' to final drop) to 2 different drop zones, hardpiped again--then flex connect each of those to the other components. Because of the short horizontal run to the first, 3" or smaller? And with the longer overhead and the vertical associated with it, just stay 3" or reduce for the distance. I can't imagine more than one thing being run at a time. Would you just put end caps over the outlets unless they are the one in use?
Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 7:24 pm
by robinson46176
I am still going to try using 3" RV sewer flex lines and twist lock connectors from either Camping World or Wally World from the blast gates to most of the machines in my shop. It will be all 4" runs between the cyclone and the blast gates and of course between the cyclone and the HF 2 HP DC. Prices are far less than stuff from the woodworking places.
I do intend to use a 4" line on my planer and several other tools but in most cases the 3” should be more than big enough and much more easy to handle.
.
Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 9:19 am
by scollins
Hard, smooth walled pipe will flow cleaner with less potential for clogging.
Some individuals think that smaller works, it doesn't. I work for Woodcraft and suggest that they go as large as they can for their DC. The ones that don't believe come back later for bigger pipe. In my shop, I have 4" metal pipe and am considering going to 5 or 6" for the main run. My black ribbed pipe will stop up (never did use the second 10' piece that I bought, gave it away) , but never on the smooth metal. I sometimes add a 2" hose to the mix. The flow is noticeably less than the 4" and when I disconnect it with the system on there is always a big clunk when that restriction is taken away and the line clears. Never get that clunk on just the 4" when I disconnect something from it.
The Dust Deputy is a great product. We sell a ton of them with great reviews, but it is a product that is designed to work with a 2-1/2" shop vac, not a 2hp DC so again you will be adding restriction to your system and decreasing efficency. Get a cyclone lid ($20-30 vs $69-99 for the DD) designed to top a garage can or build a cyclone sized for a 2hp DC (search on Bill Pentz and dust collection, he has the drawings for one).
All of your big chip producers should be within 10' of the DC unless you have a 5hp+ DC. Floor sweep (wonderful to have), joiner, planer, router, tablesaw, bandsaw. Of course, with the SS that is not an issue since all are in one spot. My SS is at the end of a 35' run, but I use it for disc sanding, drill press and lathe work (dang, if it doesn't snatch the sandpaper out of my hand everytime I lose my grip on it). That's with a 1.5hp Jet DC.
Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 10:33 am
by mrhart
scollins wrote:Hard, smooth walled pipe will flow cleaner with less potential for clogging.
Some individuals think that smaller works, it doesn't. I work for Woodcraft and suggest that they go as large as they can for their DC. The ones that don't believe come back later for bigger pipe. In my shop, I have 4" metal pipe and am considering going to 5 or 6" for the main run. My black ribbed pipe will stop up (never did use the second 10' piece that I bought, gave it away) , but never on the smooth metal. I sometimes add a 2" hose to the mix. The flow is noticeably less than the 4" and when I disconnect it with the system on there is always a big clunk when that restriction is taken away and the line clears. Never get that clunk on just the 4" when I disconnect something from it.
The Dust Deputy is a great product. We sell a ton of them with great reviews, but it is a product that is designed to work with a 2-1/2" shop vac, not a 2hp DC so again you will be adding restriction to your system and decreasing efficency. Get a cyclone lid ($20-30 vs $69-99 for the DD) designed to top a garage can or build a cyclone sized for a 2hp DC (search on Bill Pentz and dust collection, he has the drawings for one).
All of your big chip producers should be within 10' of the DC unless you have a 5hp+ DC. Floor sweep (wonderful to have), joiner, planer, router, tablesaw, bandsaw. Of course, with the SS that is not an issue since all are in one spot. My SS is at the end of a 35' run, but I use it for disc sanding, drill press and lathe work (dang, if it doesn't snatch the sandpaper out of my hand everytime I lose my grip on it). That's with a 1.5hp Jet DC.
Thanks for the input sir. I have access to 3" pvc and long radius fittings(woark at hvac warehouse) or 4" pipw and elbows. The longest run I can see is maybe 20' or so. And I think I will have 4-5 stations to hit. I just want a simple 6-8' hose (ss preferrably)to swing around at the end of each. Would you reccommend the 3-4" galv or 3" pvc?
Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 5:01 pm
by JPG
mrhart wrote:Thanks for the input sir. I have access to 3" pvc and long radius fittings(woark at hvac warehouse) or 4" pipw and elbows. The longest run I can see is maybe 20' or so. And I think I will have 4-5 stations to hit. I just want a simple 6-8' hose (ss preferrably)to swing around at the end of each. Would you reccommend the 3-4" galv or 3" pvc?
One thing that has been missing(or I missed it) is WHAT dc are you using?
If a SS dc3300, do not go over 3" diameter pipe.
If using one of those humongous HD or JET collectors with air flow to 'spare' then bigger
is better.
Gotta maintain cf/m to keep particles suspended in the air flow.
IMHO PVC is easier to both work with and support. Ya can probably get by without glueing it so it could be 'modified' later. Duct tape(the real thing!) should seal the dry joints adequately.
Electrical pvc long elbows look like a good thing to me.
P.S. I think simpler is better. Unless you intend to be at more than one station at a time, a single inlet with a 20' hose to move to the 'active station' as needed. Getting into multiple inlets leads to separate short hoses and blast gates and multiple tees == $$ and decreased performance(static pressure drop).