Shopsmith Forums

Before I begin...my old man was a machinist for 35 years that dealt in MICRONS. So, my desire for precision is inbred!

I sold my mark v 500 to my dad so I could buy my father in law's 510. The 510 is a few years older than my 500 was but has about 1/3 the hours that mine did.

Anyhow, I've decided to do a full alignment before I start my next project. I'm at the stage of aligning the miter gauge slots to the blade. I have a dial indicator mounted to the miter gauge. The table was out if square by .025 and I know have it dialed in so the miter slots are parallel to the blade within .002. Do you guys think that's close enough...or should I chase the extra 2 thou and try for dead on?

UPDATE.. when I tilted the table back to 45 degrees and torqued down th rear trunnion bolts...my .
002 alignment slipped to .010... Should I be concerned?

I appreciate your input!
Geo

eagleta2 wrote:Before I begin...my old man was a machinist for 35 years that dealt in MICRONS. So, my desire for precision is inbred!

I sold my mark v 500 to my dad so I could buy my father in law's 510. The 510 is a few years older than my 500 was but has about 1/3 the hours that mine did.

Anyhow, I've decided to do a full alignment before I start my next project. I'm at the stage of aligning the miter gauge slots to the blade. I have a dial indicator mounted to the miter gauge. The table was out if square by .025 and I know have it dialed in so the miter slots are parallel to the blade within .002. Do you guys think that's close enough...or should I chase the extra 2 thou and try for dead on?


I appreciate your input!
Geo

There is nothing wrong, in my humble opinion, for going for dead on but it is unnecessary and probably not achievable. The Mark V was neither designed nor manufactured to those specifications. It is not a milling machine, even though I like to think that I mill lumber there.

I have established for myself a target criteria of .003" on all "alignments" but I accept =< .005" and am pleased. Better than that is possible with some main tables but that is the luck of the draw. Some are just not flat and some are not finished around the edges. Inspect your tables and you will see what I mean.

The machined pads on the front and rear of the main tables along with the miter slots will be very, very close to dead on (with respect to one another). That is the end of precision milling.

Using the conical disc, I have done some sanding and grinding on the sides of my tables so that I can pull them tight to one another without losing alignment. That was more or a chore than I now believe it was worth.

Having said that, if I had a milling machine and the skill to use it, I would have tuned those tables to dead on by now but that will never happen now.

Spend your extra time making sure that your miter gauge and rip fence are properly aligned (to the blade) and the drill bit perpendicular to the table (in all aspects) and you will be able to "mill" some fine wood projects without a great deal of frustration..

I find it reasonably easy to get in the .0025" to .003" range and find I have desire to go any farther.

Time for true confession time, once I was attempting to do an alignment check and found the machine was way off. By good fortune before I stated to loosen bolts and really dig into it that I found I had forgotten to tighten the headstock down....... Just a reminder, don't do as I have done.

I get years on my alignments but do check from time to time to make sure they are within reason. Like Dusty if I were to find it off by .005" I don't think I would take the time to "fix" it.

Ed

Thanks guys...I've decided to live with it...

Now I'm having significant probs with rip fence alignments. This isn't new to me...so I am wondering what im doing wrong....I've been working on fence for over an hour and im driving myself crazy.

First problem.... When measuring I see that the surface of fence isn't dead flat...it floats about .007. I can even accept this...

Here's my procedure...please tell me what I'm missing.

I take the torque off of the 2 screws on the bottom of the fence. replace the fence on the table and tighten the knob only then align the fence so that from the front to the back is Plus minus .005.when I locked the handle the back of the fence moved out about .025. over correct for this and then the fence is aligned to Plus or minus .005.

I tighten the front screw on bottom of fence and gingerly remove fence. I invert it on table and torque both screws. Then replace fence on table and its out .045!

Please help so I stop po upping out my hair!
Thanks
Geo

eagleta2 wrote:Thanks guys...I've decided to live with it...

Now I'm having significant probs with rip fence alignments. This isn't new to me...so I am wondering what im doing wrong....I've been working on fence for over an hour and im driving myself crazy.

First problem.... When measuring I see that the surface of fence isn't dead flat...it floats about .007. I can even accept this...

Here's my procedure...please tell me what I'm missing.

I take the torque off of the 2 screws on the bottom of the fence. replace the fence on the table and tighten the knob only then align the fence so that from the front to the back is Plus minus .005.when I locked the handle the back of the fence moved out about .025. over correct for this and then the fence is aligned to Plus or minus .005.

I tighten the front screw on bottom of fence and gingerly remove fence. I invert it on table and torque both screws. Then replace fence on table and its out .045!

Please help so I stop po upping out my hair!
Thanks
Geo

I have a board that I have planed down so that it fits snuggly in the miter track. I loosen the two screws on the bottem and then mount it (the rip fence) and slide it up against that board and clamp it there. Then I tighten that one bolt. Then I gingerly remove the rip fence so that I can tighten the other. That done, I remount the rip fence up against that board and check its position. If not good, I do it again.

I suspect that you have no equipment problem and that all you need to do is develop the technique that works best for you. This is a procedure that you'll not have to do frequently so every time is like a new experience.

I guess I should ask what version of fence you have, that might give us a hit at what steps need to be taken in the alignment

The first thing that worries me is when you mention "floating", are you really saying the face of the fence is bowed or crowned or floats back and forth when tightened?

Next issue is the when locking the back end the fence it should not move. The locking mechanism is at the front and that is what determines the square. The rear is to limit the deflection when pressure is applied to the fence.

Adjustments are made with the front locked in place and the bolts left loose, the back end should be loose enough to just move into a square position. Then lock the back and recheck if it is still square.

If things still seem to not align we can give you other things to look for during the process.

Ed

You are referring to a knob on the front of the fence. To me this means you either have a 510 or a 500.

Either one works the same as far as this adjustment is concerned.

Make sure that tapped hole(s) in the front of the fence does NOT have a screw protruding into the surface where the fence registers to the front of the table.

As you described, secure the fence to the front edge of the table by tightening the knob.(if a 500 do NOT tighten it to the point the rear clamp activates)(if a 510 likewise do NOT activate the rear clamp). With the screws loose, align the fence front and rear to the miter slot. Snug one screw and if accessible, snug the other(you mentioned having two) Release the front clamp and carefully tighten the two screws. Reclamp front to table and re check. This is the frustrating part if the fence moves while tightening the screws.

After getting it aligned, only tighten the rear clamp after the front clamp has properly seated against the table front (rail if 510).

That rear clamp should only squeeze the back of the table and prevent the fence from deflecting sideways. The 510 has that curved piece that rests on the rear rail. It must be positioned(adjustment) to set squared away and directly on top of the rear rail.

What one shoots for in aligning a fence is that it is parallel to the saw blade, with the next best solution being that the fence at the back of the blade is a few thousands of an inch farther away from the blade than the front is. And what you don't want is the fence to be closer to the blade at the back of the blade than it is at the front, as this can cause wood being ripped to get pinched between the blade and the fence and result in a kick back.

pennview wrote:What one shoots for in aligning a fence is that it is parallel to the saw blade, with the next best solution being that the fence at the back of the blade is a few thousands of an inch farther away from the blade than the front is. And what you don't want is the fence to be closer to the blade at the back of the blade than it is at the front, as this can cause wood being ripped to get pinched between the blade and the fence and result in a kick back.

FWIW The miter slot is assumed to be parallel to the blade. If not, the table needs to be aligned first.

It is also assumed the front of the table is at a constant angle to the miter slot(preferably 90, but not crucial).

This is where I cannot totally agree with setting the miter gauge to the table front. OK if it is 90, but if not.... That is more likely with a 500 or Greenies(cast front) and Goldies(bolted on extrusion)..

I agree the fence should NOT be 'closer' at the rear, but do not think making it further is an objective. 'A few thousands'(further out) is I agree close enough.

My M5 fences are all less than flat. They tend to be slightly squeezed in at the middle(after all they are hollow with an open bottom), so they must be aligned at the very ends. That can lead to wider rips at the ends and rear blade dragging. Again we be talking a few thousands. One of these days I might try correcting that(very carefully:rolleyes:).

FWIW The insertion of spacers in the middle of the fence where the holes for mounting jigs etc. are so as to prevent squeezing the fence sides when tightening those jigs MAY help prevent the unflatness just mentioned, although I think a 'filled' bottom would be more effective in that area.