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Can a 115v SS be rewired for 230volts?

Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 1:25 am
by drummeramos
I have a 30amp outlet in my garage, that I haven't used.
Is I possible to get my SS Mark V(510) to run on that circuit by changing out the power cord and plug to a 30amp cable?

My SS Mark V is from 1989 if the that matters.

Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 2:35 am
by paulmcohen
drummeramos wrote:I have a 30amp outlet in my garage, that I haven't used.
Is I possible to get my SS Mark V(510) to run on that circuit by changing out the power cord and plug to a 30amp cable?

My SS Mark V is from 1989 if the that matters.

Your question confuses:confused: me, if your circuit is 115 Volts 30 AMPS you can just plug the Shopsmith in it will not draw more power than it needs (15 AMPS or slightly more at startup). If your circuit is 230 Volts, you can't just change the plug, you need a new motor unless you have a PowerPro headstock.

I have a PowerPro and do just plug it in to a 220 Volt circuit or 115 volt cuicuit by just adapting the plug.

Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 2:49 am
by JPG
drummeramos wrote:I have a 30amp outlet in my garage, that I haven't used.
Is I possible to get my SS Mark V(510) to run on that circuit by changing out the power cord and plug to a 30amp cable?

My SS Mark V is from 1989 if the that matters.

If that 30A outlet is 230v then:

Not without changing the internal wiring of the motor.(not easy).


Not at all if it is an Emerson Motor.(impossible).

If that 30A outlet is 115v(not likely) or 230v with neutral, then tis possible.

However I would not recommend connecting to a 30A circuit. The Shopsmith motors do NOT have internal over temp, over current protection.


Judging from the way you asked the question, I would not recommend your trying!

Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 12:12 pm
by drummeramos
Let me rephrase... it is a 30A outlet with 230v.
For some reason I was under the understanding that the MarkV was a 115/230 motor and could be rewired(power cord) to run on the 230v. In the owners manual SS doesn't make that distinction very clearly.

I called SS this morning and they told me that they stopped making the 240v motor years ago due to lack of demand here in the USA. So basically I'd need to buy the new Power Pro to have that capability.

again... I'm just a newbie to SS. I still haven't officially used my machine since putting it together last weekend. The reason this whole power(voltage) thing came up was that I kept tripping my GFI(15amps) in the garage, so I looked at the 230 outlet as a possible option. I will now be adding a 20amp circuit and call it a day.

Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 12:50 pm
by JPG
drummeramos wrote:Let me rephrase... it is a 30A outlet with 230v.
For some reason I was under the understanding that the MarkV was a 115/230 motor and could be rewired(power cord) to run on the 230v. In the owners manual SS doesn't make that distinction very clearly.

I called SS this morning and they told me that they stopped making the 240v motor years ago due to lack of demand here in the USA. So basically I'd need to buy the new Power Pro to have that capability.

again... I'm just a newbie to SS. I still haven't officially used my machine since putting it together last weekend. The reason this whole power(voltage) thing came up was that I kept tripping my GFI(15amps) in the garage, so I looked at the 230 outlet as a possible option. I will now be adding a 20amp circuit and call it a day.
Probably the simplest least painful solution!;)

Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 2:00 pm
by robinson46176
There is another option... I'll insert a disclaimer here and say use an electrician if you need to...
That 30 amp 230 volt circuit is probably wired with #10 wire. The outlet can be removed and a single breaker box (disconnect) can be added there with a single 20 amp breaker in it fed by one hot and the neutral from the 230 V feed. Then run from there to where you need the 20 amp 115 outlet with a #12-2 w/ground wire. That will give you a feed that will not have a voltage drop problem but will also protect the SS from damage from a breaker that takes too much load to trip it.

You can also go to a camping supply store and get an RV converter connector that will make the same connections as above but you would still need to have a lower (20 amp) breaker in the mix to protect the SS. Most RV's have a fuse/breaker box in the camper to deal with that.

I guess you could use a split off converter and replace the 30 amp breaker pair in the main box with a 20 amp for that circuit...

Regardless if you do any of the work do it with all power off and NOT standing barefoot in a metal tub filled with water. ;)

I don't know your code situation there... act accordingly. :)


On a side note... Electrical code enforcement here is handled at the county level and some counties have gotten themselves into such a financial fix that they have been cutting inspectors and some now have no inspection at all. The rules are still on the books but they just will not / cannot pay anybody. In some areas the power company guys look at the main box to see if it looks safe but that is all and they are not very fussy about fine details, just nothing freaky.
My county still has inspections but out here on the farm they pretty much leave us alone except on new services going in.

Of course you can do what ever you want no matter how stupid it is from the plug-in on to the powered item. I once had a VERY short term renter that had a common wall light switch (no box, nothing) screwed to the front of the wooden base of an old console TV (the TV switch was bad) with everything bare (not even a bit of tape) and the moron had a crawling baby. :eek:


.

Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 4:37 pm
by beeg
[quote="robinson46176"]Regardless if you do any of the work do it with all power off and NOT standing barefoot in a metal tub filled with water. ]


GEE Farmer, take ALL of the FUN out why don't ya. :D

Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 6:59 pm
by backhertz
Sounds like an old dryer or A/C outlet. You don't need to replace the 10 gauge wire unless it doesn't have a safety ground wire. But you will need to replace the circuit breaker with a single 20-amp breaker and a 20-amp receptacle. The circuit breaker will not permit more than 20 amps to flow before it trips which is the reason why 10 gauge wire is okay.

Before starting you need to ascertain if you have AL- aluminum wire or CU- copper wire. Hopefully it's all copper. If you have AL wire, you'll need to apply an anti-oxidant and devices marked AL/CU. Mixing aluminum and copper is a no no.

Now assuming you have a double breaker right now, you'll see a black wire & a red (10/3) or a white (10/2) wire on the double 220/240 breaker. It is hard to say without looking what you might find as some home owners do the darnedest things and end up electrocuting themselves or causing fires. Only you know your capabilities/experience and need to ensure you are within the code or should your place burn down you'll find yourself without a home and most likely without insurance coverage.

Be sure to turn the main circuit breaker off to the loadcenter/circuit breaker panel. Now even through you shut off the main circuit breaker, the large lugs where the main line is connected are still alive. Do not touch them. If you know how to use a voltmeter and have one, use it. You can also buy a device that will beep or chirp if any voltage is present like this: http://www.amazon.com/Triplett-Non-Cont ... B0002THPMU

You also need to be sure you have a safe circuit breaker panel. There is one make which I can not recall which was discontinued because of inferior quality as I recall.

Now assuming you have all copper, unplug/remove the double breaker and unscrew the two wires. Screw the black wire into the new 20-amp breaker and the snap the breaker in or snap the new breaker in first & then attach the black wire. That leaves an extra wire- most likely a red (10/3) or white (10/2)with red tape or just a white (10/2). If it is fairly new, then it is possible to already have a 10/3 with a black, red, white, & a safety ground wire, but you have to look first. There is printing on the wire every foot or so that identifies the gauge and number of conductors. But even though it might say 10/3 and you see 4 wires, the safety ground is not counted as a conductor, so that is why it is called a 10/3.

If you have a 10/3 , just remove the red and cap it with a wire nut and tape the nut so it doesn't fall off & do the same at the receptacle. Who knows? Maybe you'll want to go back to 220/240 some day. At the receptacle, connect the black to the gold screw, then connect the white to the silver screw, and the bare copper wire to the green screw on the receptacle.

Using the 10 gauge wire will actually cause less of a voltage drop on the wire as everyone knows that electrons flow is on the outside of the conductor...<smile>...it actually does. The larger the conductor, the lower the wire resistance. People often wonder why devices which are connected to 2-3 extension cords as to why the extension cord feels warm or even hot, have dimmer lights, or don't sound like they do when plugged in directly to an outlet. The reason is most people buy cheap extension cords with 14 gauge wire. Had they used a more expensive contractor heavy-duty extension cord, then chances are the wire is at least 12 gauge or maybe even 10 gauge. The smaller the number, the thicker the wire and the less the voltage drop/resistance/the less heat created.

Here is a link:
http://www.doityourself.com/forum/elect ... gle.html#b

If you have a 10/2, then it will most likely be a black, white, and a safety ground (bare wire). Here is where you need to be more careful depending on if this is a main panel or a subpanel. In a main panel, the neutral wires and safety grounds are all connected together. However, on a subpanel, the neutrals and the grounds are isolated from each other to prevent something called a ground-loop. I'll let you Google that as it would take too long to explain. In this case, you use the black wire as above, but the white wire must be placed only on the neutral bar/bus. If you see the whites all on a separate bar, the grounds on another bar, and this is a subpanel, then that is how to do it, otherwise, you can connect it with the other white and ground ground wires.

I know a guy who actually has a 120/240 motor. He bought it from an estate sale I believe. That is the only one I have seen.

The breaker size is ultimately determines the circuit capacity. If you have questions, Home Depot or Lowes will usually have one person who will be able to draw you a diagram and get you what you need. If you could show me some pics, I would be better able to assist you as there is a lot involved even though it is only a few wires. I always error on the side of safety. If you have any questions/concerns, please ask & assume nothing.

You could always PM me and if you have a way to send pics, I will be better able to advise you. But ultimately, you are responsible for any work. I worked in electronics for 40 years and was only shocked once. It was during my first year. I learned very quickly.

I do not consider myself an electrician. Before I retired my last position was a radar engineer on those orange "spinny things" at major airports as my younger daughter used to call them. I did electrical work as needed as my primary position was to ensure air traffic controllers scopes were working so they could take naps...<smile>.

Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 11:20 pm
by beeg
backhertz wrote:Before starting you need to ascertain if you have AL- aluminum wire or CU- copper wire. Hopefully it's all copper. If you have AL wire, you'll need to apply an anti-oxidant and devices marked AL/CU. Mixing aluminum and copper is a no no.
IF you have aluminum wire, it should be one size larger. In this case 8ga. wire.

Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 11:22 pm
by drummeramos
That for all the info.!:D
I'm just gonna leave the old circuit alone, and go with a new 20amp 115volt circuit. I'm lucky to have an experienced electrician as a friend, who happens to have everything I need to put the new circuit in properly. And I'll just happen to have some ribeyes and beer ready when were done installing it(mostly him installing):D

Thanks guys!