Yesterday I broke out and set up the overhead router and milled out the mortises and tenons for the next window shutter. As I have reported earlier the OPR setup has many adjustments. It seems I'm always finding the need to make more adjustments. You may find (like I have) you will be adjusting much more than you had planned. Although this was the third or fourth time I set up this machine, it took quite a while. The learning curve on this machine is pretty long and shallow at first. In other words, it has taken me quite a while to learn and understand most of the many angles, adjustments and movements of this machine.
Setting up the OPR for mortising required an hour and a quarter. Trouble shooting took another hour! I was into this joint making exercise 2 and a half hours, before making even one splinter. To cut the 6 mortises required only 30 minutes. Tenon making went pretty fast too, with good results, But not without many more adjustments.
What's this troubleshooting? Well, after screwing around a while with the little set screws that adjust the brass rub plate, I found the router adjustment arm would not lock and stay in one position. A disassembly operation showed the inside end of the arm (the one that is supposed to tighten against the shaft) was rough, chewed up and had some raised gouges. Also the end of the shaft that has a circle of ridges (small splines) to give a seating surface to the tightened arm - was all chewed up. Evidently, I had moved the arm previously without first unscrewing it. I took the shaft apart, rotated it 180 degrees, so to expose unchewed up ridges. Filed the inside end of the arm smooth. All seemed to work well and I could again tighten the router so it did not move up or down. I think when all of the little splines on the end of the adjustment shaft get worn down the tightening arm will work better than new. I'll bet those little ridges got ground down just by the action of tightening the adjusting arm.
Another couple problems I ran across: After routing through mortises on the center stiles, I found the mortise was not perfectly thru at right angles. The router bit appeared to be off vertical by about 1/2 degree. I adjusted the table right angle stop bolts to compensate.
When setting up the horizontal table in order to route tenons. I again found the router bit was not parallel to the table. Ah Ha! The problem all along had been a slight angle of the router as I mounted it in the OPR mounting bracket. Boy! I don't know how to fix that situation!! Incidently the "pads" that are supposed to protect the router are laughable. They fell off as the OPR was unpacked. I made my own by using carpet tape with only one stickey side exposed. This works pretty well.
In summary - The Overhead Router can and will do a wonderful and smooth job of making mortise and tenon joints. With this machine you can finish the joints fairly quickly. However the set up is (can be) a bearcat! You need to have a lot of patience to use this method. You could use the OPR for mortises- this is almost a no brainer. But for me a table saw and a tenoning jig works better.
Opr Set-ups
Moderators: HopefulSSer, admin
Opr Set-ups
Octogenarian's have an earned right to be a curmudgeon.
Chuck in Lancaster, CA
Chuck in Lancaster, CA
My ongoing quest
Hey Chuck,
Thanks for the report. I haven't personally checked out an OPR yet. But I was pretty much assuming that I'd only get one if I first had a dedicated Mark V or mini-Mark base to leave set up all the time for the OPR. To that end, I recently got a spare used 500... but the restoration bug overtook me and now the whole machine will soon be going to a new owner. I will post some pictures in a few days. So I guess I'll start over some time in the future!
Best Regards,
Thanks for the report. I haven't personally checked out an OPR yet. But I was pretty much assuming that I'd only get one if I first had a dedicated Mark V or mini-Mark base to leave set up all the time for the OPR. To that end, I recently got a spare used 500... but the restoration bug overtook me and now the whole machine will soon be going to a new owner. I will post some pictures in a few days. So I guess I'll start over some time in the future!
Best Regards,
Chris
-
dusty
- Platinum Member
- Posts: 21371
- Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2006 6:52 am
- Location: Tucson (Wildcat Country), Arizona
OPR Set-Ups
OK, now I need some clarification about the OPR. I have been wanting one ever since Nick began his demonstration series but now I am not sure.
The difficulties encountered during set-up - are they the product of a long-low learning curve or are they going to be repetitive?
The selling factor for the OPR is not how well it does mortises; it is how well it does jobs that "require" a pin router. Is there anyone else out there using the OPR. Charlese and Reible both seem to like their pin routers despite the set-up issues but that is not enough to make me go buy one.
Pin router or No pin router - that is one question. Another is - A dedicated pin router- maybe not?
Since the OPR does not utilize the headstock, I am wondering why I should further occupy my headstock doing pin routing. Time devoted to changeovers is significant enough without addings hours to set-up the OPR during which times the Shopsmith (and I) is(are) otherwise out of commission.
The difficulties encountered during set-up - are they the product of a long-low learning curve or are they going to be repetitive?
The selling factor for the OPR is not how well it does mortises; it is how well it does jobs that "require" a pin router. Is there anyone else out there using the OPR. Charlese and Reible both seem to like their pin routers despite the set-up issues but that is not enough to make me go buy one.
Pin router or No pin router - that is one question. Another is - A dedicated pin router- maybe not?
Since the OPR does not utilize the headstock, I am wondering why I should further occupy my headstock doing pin routing. Time devoted to changeovers is significant enough without addings hours to set-up the OPR during which times the Shopsmith (and I) is(are) otherwise out of commission.
"Making Sawdust Safely"
Dusty
Sent from my Dell XPS using Firefox.
Dusty
Sent from my Dell XPS using Firefox.
-
Ed in Tampa
- Platinum Member
- Posts: 5830
- Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2006 12:45 am
- Location: North Tampa Bay area Florida
Chuck
I realize a dedicated Mark V to set the OPR on would be ideal but let me ask, would your setup time be significantly shortened if you kept the router motor installed in the OPR?
I haven't messed with a OPR so I don't know what your dealing with to install or remove it from the Mark V. I can imagine all the areas of possible adjustment. Router to the arm, the arm to support tubes and finally the router bit in relation to the table.
Also if you did leave the router mounted in the OPR when you removed it from the Mark V would this create a storage nightmare?
My problem is a room, I'm quickly running out of room. I would have a dedicated router table if I had the room. So before I buy anything I try to figure out how and where I'm going to store it when it is not in use. I still have a fair amount of wall space to hang things but as far as sitting on the floor forget it. I also have space I can make available in some of my wall cabinets but then something stored there would have to be able to fit in the cabinet.
Right now my thinking is rather than a OPR, which I would really like to have, I would be better off with the pro-fence router table. I could mount my router to the router plate. Then I could slip the router and plate into the table when I needed or store the router mounted on the plate in my cabinet space. I could then hang the table without the plate and router on the wall or leave the table mounted as additional work table (I would probably need to get an addition router plate to fill the hole if I didn't have my router on the original plated mounted.)
I'm learning from your experience so I really appreciate all the feedback you give.
Ed
I realize a dedicated Mark V to set the OPR on would be ideal but let me ask, would your setup time be significantly shortened if you kept the router motor installed in the OPR?
I haven't messed with a OPR so I don't know what your dealing with to install or remove it from the Mark V. I can imagine all the areas of possible adjustment. Router to the arm, the arm to support tubes and finally the router bit in relation to the table.
Also if you did leave the router mounted in the OPR when you removed it from the Mark V would this create a storage nightmare?
My problem is a room, I'm quickly running out of room. I would have a dedicated router table if I had the room. So before I buy anything I try to figure out how and where I'm going to store it when it is not in use. I still have a fair amount of wall space to hang things but as far as sitting on the floor forget it. I also have space I can make available in some of my wall cabinets but then something stored there would have to be able to fit in the cabinet.
Right now my thinking is rather than a OPR, which I would really like to have, I would be better off with the pro-fence router table. I could mount my router to the router plate. Then I could slip the router and plate into the table when I needed or store the router mounted on the plate in my cabinet space. I could then hang the table without the plate and router on the wall or leave the table mounted as additional work table (I would probably need to get an addition router plate to fill the hole if I didn't have my router on the original plated mounted.)
I'm learning from your experience so I really appreciate all the feedback you give.
Ed
Since I have neither experienced the set-up problems or the learning curve that Ed describes, I'm not sure how to jump into this thread. But I have some comments that may be germane.
"A disassembly operation showed the inside end of the arm (the one that is supposed to tighten against the shaft) was rough, chewed up and had some raised gouges. Also the end of the shaft that has a circle of ridges (small splines) to give a seating surface to the tightened arm - was all chewed up. Evidently, I had moved the arm previously without first unscrewing it. I took the shaft apart, rotated it 180 degrees, so to expose unchewed up ridges. Filed the inside end of the arm smooth. All seemed to work well and I could again tighten the router so it did not move up or down. I think when all of the little splines on the end of the adjustment shaft get worn down the tightening arm will work better than new."
The "shaft" to which Ed refers is actually a hardened shoulder bolt (almost file hard). The adjustment arm is made from a softer steel. When you tighten the arm, the end contacts the knurled surface of the shoulder bolt's head -- what Ed refers to as "ridges." Under mild pressure, the hard knurls bite into the softer arm and hold the router at the desired height. If you forget to loosen the arm before you pull it toward you, the shoulder bolt turns and the nut that holds it in the housing loosens -- this may be what happened to Ed. The router would not stay in place because the nut was loose, not because the parts were damaged. This is difficult to detect; it fooled me once during an Academy class. Possibly Ed tightened the nut when he repositioned the shoulder bolt, not noticing it was loose in the first place. Once again, this happened to me before I knew what to look for. Under no circumstances should the softer adjustment arm "chew up" the knurls of the harder shoulder bolt.
Eventually, after a century or so, the end of the adjustment arm will wear down to the point where it needs replacing. Wear at the end of the arm is normal, and there will be some minor flattening of the knurls on the shoulder bolt. If the knurls appear to be overly worn, this may be due to impacted metal shavings. If you clean the knurls with a wire brush and find the knurls are indeed "chewed" and not just slightly flattened, it may be because the bolt was improperly hardened or made from the wrong materials.
"When setting up the horizontal table in order to rout tenons. I again found the router bit was not parallel to the table. Ah Ha! The problem all along had been a slight angle of the router as I mounted it in the OPR mounting bracket. Boy! I don't know how to fix that situation!! Incidently the "pads" that are supposed to protect the router are laughable. They fell off as the OPR was unpacked. I made my own by using carpet tape with only one stickey side exposed. This works pretty well."
Our advertisement copy, I'm afraid, is less than clear about the fact that some brands of routers will work better in the overam router than others. The holder is designed for cylinder-shaped router motors, preferably machined-metal cylinders -- Porter Cable, Craftsman, Milwaukee, etc. Plastic-encased routers, especially plastic cases with odd corners and protrusions, are all but impossible to align. Even if they line up when you first drop them in, the pressure of the clamp that holds them will deform the plastic. I use a Porter Cable at the Academy and a Milwaukee in my home workshop, and I can honestly say they are both self-aligning for this application.
Which bring me to my last comment. Ed mentioned: Time devoted to changeovers is significant enough without addings hours to set-up the OPR during which times the Shopsmith (and I) is (are) otherwise out of commission.
We are, of course, very much aware of this at Shopsmith. The overarm router is designed to hold its alignment when you break it down and set it up. My experience shows that it does this. Once past the initial set-up, you can mount the overarm router on the way tubes and drop a metal cylinder-shaped router motor into the holder and be reasonably certain that the tool is ready to work. I always check the alignment before I begin cutting wood, but I can't think of a time since I bought my overam router when I've had to do anything but adjust the position of the fence or the pin.
Ed, if you'd like you want, send the shoulder bolt and the adjustment arm back to Shopsmith addressed to me. I'll send you a "loaner" set while I mount your set on my overarm router and see if I have the same problems you describe.
With all good wishes,
"A disassembly operation showed the inside end of the arm (the one that is supposed to tighten against the shaft) was rough, chewed up and had some raised gouges. Also the end of the shaft that has a circle of ridges (small splines) to give a seating surface to the tightened arm - was all chewed up. Evidently, I had moved the arm previously without first unscrewing it. I took the shaft apart, rotated it 180 degrees, so to expose unchewed up ridges. Filed the inside end of the arm smooth. All seemed to work well and I could again tighten the router so it did not move up or down. I think when all of the little splines on the end of the adjustment shaft get worn down the tightening arm will work better than new."
The "shaft" to which Ed refers is actually a hardened shoulder bolt (almost file hard). The adjustment arm is made from a softer steel. When you tighten the arm, the end contacts the knurled surface of the shoulder bolt's head -- what Ed refers to as "ridges." Under mild pressure, the hard knurls bite into the softer arm and hold the router at the desired height. If you forget to loosen the arm before you pull it toward you, the shoulder bolt turns and the nut that holds it in the housing loosens -- this may be what happened to Ed. The router would not stay in place because the nut was loose, not because the parts were damaged. This is difficult to detect; it fooled me once during an Academy class. Possibly Ed tightened the nut when he repositioned the shoulder bolt, not noticing it was loose in the first place. Once again, this happened to me before I knew what to look for. Under no circumstances should the softer adjustment arm "chew up" the knurls of the harder shoulder bolt.
Eventually, after a century or so, the end of the adjustment arm will wear down to the point where it needs replacing. Wear at the end of the arm is normal, and there will be some minor flattening of the knurls on the shoulder bolt. If the knurls appear to be overly worn, this may be due to impacted metal shavings. If you clean the knurls with a wire brush and find the knurls are indeed "chewed" and not just slightly flattened, it may be because the bolt was improperly hardened or made from the wrong materials.
"When setting up the horizontal table in order to rout tenons. I again found the router bit was not parallel to the table. Ah Ha! The problem all along had been a slight angle of the router as I mounted it in the OPR mounting bracket. Boy! I don't know how to fix that situation!! Incidently the "pads" that are supposed to protect the router are laughable. They fell off as the OPR was unpacked. I made my own by using carpet tape with only one stickey side exposed. This works pretty well."
Our advertisement copy, I'm afraid, is less than clear about the fact that some brands of routers will work better in the overam router than others. The holder is designed for cylinder-shaped router motors, preferably machined-metal cylinders -- Porter Cable, Craftsman, Milwaukee, etc. Plastic-encased routers, especially plastic cases with odd corners and protrusions, are all but impossible to align. Even if they line up when you first drop them in, the pressure of the clamp that holds them will deform the plastic. I use a Porter Cable at the Academy and a Milwaukee in my home workshop, and I can honestly say they are both self-aligning for this application.
Which bring me to my last comment. Ed mentioned: Time devoted to changeovers is significant enough without addings hours to set-up the OPR during which times the Shopsmith (and I) is (are) otherwise out of commission.
We are, of course, very much aware of this at Shopsmith. The overarm router is designed to hold its alignment when you break it down and set it up. My experience shows that it does this. Once past the initial set-up, you can mount the overarm router on the way tubes and drop a metal cylinder-shaped router motor into the holder and be reasonably certain that the tool is ready to work. I always check the alignment before I begin cutting wood, but I can't think of a time since I bought my overam router when I've had to do anything but adjust the position of the fence or the pin.
Ed, if you'd like you want, send the shoulder bolt and the adjustment arm back to Shopsmith addressed to me. I'll send you a "loaner" set while I mount your set on my overarm router and see if I have the same problems you describe.
With all good wishes,
Nick Engler
http://www.workshopcompanion.com
http://www.workshopcompanion.com
Hi,
I can't address all of these posting because I have the old model. However the "head" assembly is for the most part the same as the orginial ones like mine.
When I got mine it came in box stuck together with bubble wrap and tape and taken apart. No insturctions included... yea an ebay item for a reseller who had no idea about the tool. This was of course before shopsmith started selling the new version. I did manage to put it together and start using in a very short time.
At the time I had a self adjusting craftsman router who gave up his base for this... no lost there. It was a plastic base but seemed to work fine but was only a 1/4" chuck.... I had gotten a couple of Hitachi routers just before this and loved them so I got another one. It has a nice round nickle plated housing with NO protrusions, variable speed, 1/4" and 1/2" chucks, very quiet and I would say ideal for this use. And yes it is left in place 100% of the time. I had no issues with mounting it. On my system you have a table with a plate that holds a router below the table. I took the base from the top router and mounted it below so I can at any time add one of my other hitachi routers to the bottom table and use it as a table router.
One of the more difficult things to do is to adjust the gib. What should happen is that with the handle unlocked the router should not drop or move down. This neutral position is obtained by the gig adjustment which also has a lubrication requirement. Getting this set right takes some time and does not stay a whole season. Mine having been used had some galling on the ways but I was able to repair that and now I make sure it lubricated and stays that way.
On my system there is a nut #44 that you have to check, if it gets loose the depth handle will not hold. It is on the far side of the arm and the new one my have it labled as something else.
At least on the old one it should only take minutes to set-up operations, even the alignment of the pin and bit which needs to be dead on isn't all that hard. OK the first time I did it using the method in the manual it took a while then I came up with the holes in the block of wood and that was that.
I found I had almost no learning curve on this tool. However I do a LOT of routing projects and have been doing routing for as long as I have had my shopsmith... 1976... and I have done over head pin routing before.
I am very pro routing and I have really enjoyed my OPR... just wished I could have had one long long ago. Same with the Joint Matic, it is a great tool as well. In fact I have a new addition to my shopsmith... by the way of a jointech router table (more on this another time). The plan is by spring to be down to just 5 or 6 routing stations... the ultimate router station is at about 10 stations right now.
Ed
I can't address all of these posting because I have the old model. However the "head" assembly is for the most part the same as the orginial ones like mine.
When I got mine it came in box stuck together with bubble wrap and tape and taken apart. No insturctions included... yea an ebay item for a reseller who had no idea about the tool. This was of course before shopsmith started selling the new version. I did manage to put it together and start using in a very short time.
At the time I had a self adjusting craftsman router who gave up his base for this... no lost there. It was a plastic base but seemed to work fine but was only a 1/4" chuck.... I had gotten a couple of Hitachi routers just before this and loved them so I got another one. It has a nice round nickle plated housing with NO protrusions, variable speed, 1/4" and 1/2" chucks, very quiet and I would say ideal for this use. And yes it is left in place 100% of the time. I had no issues with mounting it. On my system you have a table with a plate that holds a router below the table. I took the base from the top router and mounted it below so I can at any time add one of my other hitachi routers to the bottom table and use it as a table router.
One of the more difficult things to do is to adjust the gib. What should happen is that with the handle unlocked the router should not drop or move down. This neutral position is obtained by the gig adjustment which also has a lubrication requirement. Getting this set right takes some time and does not stay a whole season. Mine having been used had some galling on the ways but I was able to repair that and now I make sure it lubricated and stays that way.
On my system there is a nut #44 that you have to check, if it gets loose the depth handle will not hold. It is on the far side of the arm and the new one my have it labled as something else.
At least on the old one it should only take minutes to set-up operations, even the alignment of the pin and bit which needs to be dead on isn't all that hard. OK the first time I did it using the method in the manual it took a while then I came up with the holes in the block of wood and that was that.
I found I had almost no learning curve on this tool. However I do a LOT of routing projects and have been doing routing for as long as I have had my shopsmith... 1976... and I have done over head pin routing before.
I am very pro routing and I have really enjoyed my OPR... just wished I could have had one long long ago. Same with the Joint Matic, it is a great tool as well. In fact I have a new addition to my shopsmith... by the way of a jointech router table (more on this another time). The plan is by spring to be down to just 5 or 6 routing stations... the ultimate router station is at about 10 stations right now.
Ed
{Knight of the Shopsmith} [Hero's don't wear capes, they wear dog tags]
[quote="Nick"[I"]... A disassembly operation showed the inside end of the arm (the one that is supposed to tighten against the shaft) was rough, chewed up and had some raised gouges. Also the end of the shaft that has a circle of ridges (small splines) to give a seating surface to the tightened arm - was all chewed up. Evidently, I had moved the arm previously without first unscrewing it. I took the shaft apart, rotated it 180 degrees, so to expose unchewed up ridges. Filed the inside end of the arm smooth. All seemed to work well and I could again tighten the router so it did not move up or down. I think when all of the little splines on the end of the adjustment shaft get worn down the tightening arm will work better than new."[/I]
The "shaft" to which Ed (actually Chuck)refers is actually a hardened shoulder bolt (almost file hard). The adjustment arm is made from a softer steel. When you tighten the arm, the end contacts the knurled surface of the shoulder bolt's head -- what Ed (Chuck) refers to as "ridges." Under mild pressure, the hard knurls bite into the softer arm and hold the router at the desired height. If you forget to loosen the arm before you pull it toward you, the shoulder bolt turns and the nut that holds it in the housing loosens -- this may be what happened to Ed (Chuck). The router would not stay in place because the nut was loose, not because the parts were damaged. This is difficult to detect](Chuck)[/B] tightened the nut when he repositioned the shoulder bolt, not noticing it was loose in the first place. Once again, this happened to me before I knew what to look for. Under no circumstances should the softer adjustment arm "chew up" the knurls of the harder shoulder bolt.
Eventually, after a century or so, the end of the adjustment arm will wear down to the point where it needs replacing. Wear at the end of the arm is normal, and there will be some minor flattening of the knurls on the shoulder bolt. If the knurls appear to be overly worn, this may be due to impacted metal shavings. If you clean the knurls with a wire brush and find the knurls are indeed "chewed" and not just slightly flattened, it may be because the bolt was improperly hardened or made from the wrong materials.
"When setting up the horizontal table in order to rout tenons. I again found the router bit was not parallel to the table. Ah Ha! The problem all along had been a slight angle of the router as I mounted it in the OPR mounting bracket. Boy! I don't know how to fix that situation!! Incidently the "pads" that are supposed to protect the router are laughable. They fell off as the OPR was unpacked. I made my own by using carpet tape with only one stickey side exposed. This works pretty well."
Our advertisement copy, I'm afraid, is less than clear about the fact that some brands of routers will work better in the overam router than others. The holder is designed for cylinder-shaped router motors, preferably machined-metal cylinders -- Porter Cable, Craftsman, Milwaukee, etc. Plastic-encased routers, especially plastic cases with odd corners and protrusions, are all but impossible to align. Even if they line up when you first drop them in, the pressure of the clamp that holds them will deform the plastic. I use a Porter Cable at the Academy and a Milwaukee in my home workshop, and I can honestly say they are both self-aligning for this application.
Which bring me to my last comment. Ed (Chuck) mentioned: Time devoted to changeovers is significant enough without addings hours to set-up the OPR during which times the Shopsmith (and I) is (are) otherwise out of commission.
We are, of course, very much aware of this at Shopsmith. The overarm router is designed to hold its alignment when you break it down and set it up. My experience shows that it does this. Once past the initial set-up, you can mount the overarm router on the way tubes and drop a metal cylinder-shaped router motor into the holder and be reasonably certain that the tool is ready to work. I always check the alignment before I begin cutting wood, but I can't think of a time since I bought my overam router when I've had to do anything but adjust the position of the fence or the pin.
Ed, (Chuck) if you'd like you want, send the shoulder bolt and the adjustment arm back to Shopsmith addressed to me. I'll send you a "loaner" set while I mount your set on my overarm router and see if I have the same problems you describe.
With all good wishes,[/quote]
Hi Nick - I am the "ED" you referred to in this post - I believe someone forgot to harden the shoulder bolt the is - as you describe - knurled. I'll snap a couple of photos and post them tomorrow.
I use a Porter Cable round router. I think the router mis alignment came from the poor job of attaching the "pads" on the clamps that hole down the router. I've had to replace them as three of the originals fell off when I first touched them. There were little pieces of a gummy substance holding a strip of plastic as a "pad". Two of these just fell off! The third came off when I flipped the edge with my thimb. The fourth is still in use. I now use carpet tape for three pads. Again I'll post a couple of photos.
In the meantime here are photos of the set ups I used for these jobs.
If you notice anything wrong here please let me know! I was happy I found room for the dust collector shield!
The "shaft" to which Ed (actually Chuck)refers is actually a hardened shoulder bolt (almost file hard). The adjustment arm is made from a softer steel. When you tighten the arm, the end contacts the knurled surface of the shoulder bolt's head -- what Ed (Chuck) refers to as "ridges." Under mild pressure, the hard knurls bite into the softer arm and hold the router at the desired height. If you forget to loosen the arm before you pull it toward you, the shoulder bolt turns and the nut that holds it in the housing loosens -- this may be what happened to Ed (Chuck). The router would not stay in place because the nut was loose, not because the parts were damaged. This is difficult to detect](Chuck)[/B] tightened the nut when he repositioned the shoulder bolt, not noticing it was loose in the first place. Once again, this happened to me before I knew what to look for. Under no circumstances should the softer adjustment arm "chew up" the knurls of the harder shoulder bolt.
Eventually, after a century or so, the end of the adjustment arm will wear down to the point where it needs replacing. Wear at the end of the arm is normal, and there will be some minor flattening of the knurls on the shoulder bolt. If the knurls appear to be overly worn, this may be due to impacted metal shavings. If you clean the knurls with a wire brush and find the knurls are indeed "chewed" and not just slightly flattened, it may be because the bolt was improperly hardened or made from the wrong materials.
"When setting up the horizontal table in order to rout tenons. I again found the router bit was not parallel to the table. Ah Ha! The problem all along had been a slight angle of the router as I mounted it in the OPR mounting bracket. Boy! I don't know how to fix that situation!! Incidently the "pads" that are supposed to protect the router are laughable. They fell off as the OPR was unpacked. I made my own by using carpet tape with only one stickey side exposed. This works pretty well."
Our advertisement copy, I'm afraid, is less than clear about the fact that some brands of routers will work better in the overam router than others. The holder is designed for cylinder-shaped router motors, preferably machined-metal cylinders -- Porter Cable, Craftsman, Milwaukee, etc. Plastic-encased routers, especially plastic cases with odd corners and protrusions, are all but impossible to align. Even if they line up when you first drop them in, the pressure of the clamp that holds them will deform the plastic. I use a Porter Cable at the Academy and a Milwaukee in my home workshop, and I can honestly say they are both self-aligning for this application.
Which bring me to my last comment. Ed (Chuck) mentioned: Time devoted to changeovers is significant enough without addings hours to set-up the OPR during which times the Shopsmith (and I) is (are) otherwise out of commission.
We are, of course, very much aware of this at Shopsmith. The overarm router is designed to hold its alignment when you break it down and set it up. My experience shows that it does this. Once past the initial set-up, you can mount the overarm router on the way tubes and drop a metal cylinder-shaped router motor into the holder and be reasonably certain that the tool is ready to work. I always check the alignment before I begin cutting wood, but I can't think of a time since I bought my overam router when I've had to do anything but adjust the position of the fence or the pin.
Ed, (Chuck) if you'd like you want, send the shoulder bolt and the adjustment arm back to Shopsmith addressed to me. I'll send you a "loaner" set while I mount your set on my overarm router and see if I have the same problems you describe.
With all good wishes,[/quote]
Hi Nick - I am the "ED" you referred to in this post - I believe someone forgot to harden the shoulder bolt the is - as you describe - knurled. I'll snap a couple of photos and post them tomorrow.
I use a Porter Cable round router. I think the router mis alignment came from the poor job of attaching the "pads" on the clamps that hole down the router. I've had to replace them as three of the originals fell off when I first touched them. There were little pieces of a gummy substance holding a strip of plastic as a "pad". Two of these just fell off! The third came off when I flipped the edge with my thimb. The fourth is still in use. I now use carpet tape for three pads. Again I'll post a couple of photos.
In the meantime here are photos of the set ups I used for these jobs.
If you notice anything wrong here please let me know! I was happy I found room for the dust collector shield!
- Attachments
-
- routing mortise.jpg (113.54 KiB) Viewed 20801 times
-
- routing mortise no.2.jpg (111.21 KiB) Viewed 20793 times
-
- setting up for routing tenon.jpg (129.93 KiB) Viewed 20796 times
Octogenarian's have an earned right to be a curmudgeon.
Chuck in Lancaster, CA
Chuck in Lancaster, CA
I picked on Ed's post as it contains the questions I think others as well have.Ed in Tampa wrote:Chuck
I realize a dedicated Mark V to set the OPR on would be ideal but let me ask, would your setup time be significantly shortened if you kept the router motor installed in the OPR?
I haven't messed with a OPR so I don't know what your dealing with to install or remove it from the Mark V. I can imagine all the areas of possible adjustment. Router to the arm, the arm to support tubes and finally the router bit in relation to the table.
Also if you did leave the router mounted in the OPR when you removed it from the Mark V would this create a storage nightmare? ....
...I'm learning from your experience so I really appreciate all the feedback you give.
Ed
Geez! guys! Don't take me wrong here! I am just a little frustrated. The OPR is really a good tool! I am glad I bought one and would recommend one to others with only a little caution. This caution is based around the potential problems is setting up for a specific job. The major consideration that leads to long setup times is the location of the OPR clamps on the way tubes and the location of the main table. The router sets into the OPR clamps easily and as Nick says should come out straightly aligned every time. (I'll address this in a later paragraph)
The problem I've had with proximity of the router to the table is my major consideration in and time consumer in making a setup. I have placed the too close to the table resulting in not enough vertical movement of the OPR arm. I have also done the reverse (too far away). I have found that one needs to be careful that there is ample OPR arm movement and also ample room for adjustment of the stop (depth setting) screw. These considerations have given me the most issues in selecting the proper placements of the OPR and it's relation to the table. I've always figured, I am a mechanical problem solver kind of guy. If I have these kinds of problems - I know others will also. I made some indelible marks on the way tubes where I mounted the OPR to route the slots in the OPR and the sliding tables. These marks didn't work for the placement for this mortising and tenon job. A small bottle jack under the table - as used by Nick will solve a lot of this issue! I don't have one, YET!!
I have done both - leaving the router mounted in the arm and removing it. The mounting of the router is a very quick and easy part of the setup. That is once the guard was modified so I could reach the router chuck stop. With that done I can push the button and change a bit with one wrench.
I have had difficulties with some setups in getting the dust removing shield to fit in a setup. It took a little longer this last time, but got the dust collector to fit. This is hard to describe, you'll see this issue with one of your setups. It is really nice when it fits!! Hardly no chips at all in the work area!
I feel I have said bad things about Nick's favorite accessory. Sorry about that, but there are setup issues that will be discussed sooner or later, for sure. If we can solve some of these early on - it will be better for all of us.
The problems I found with the vertical movement of the router, even though the adjusting arm is tight are new to me! The goughing (spelling? pronounced gow-ing) of the base of the arm was part of the problem. More of this tomorrow night after I get some pictures of the disassembled parts.
P.S. I am using both a router table and the OPR! I would not ever think of giving up on either. Haven't gotten to pin routing yet, but have a few shutters to finish first. To be honest, I wouldn't know how to make a jig for routing louvers on the OPR.
Octogenarian's have an earned right to be a curmudgeon.
Chuck in Lancaster, CA
Chuck in Lancaster, CA
Hi Chuck,
We had some postings at the other site about setting up the OPR and had some info from a person who had taken a class and gotten some hints. The whole post is at:
http://ssug.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=7142
and you will have to go down into the post to get to the information.
What it amounted to was putting a couple of 2x2's in place of the jack to space the table assembly up. They were 8" long. Then a secondary block that is 4-5/8 (this might be other values depending on operations/wood thickness/bit length. It is placed to space the arm from the table. It goes between the table and the arm assembly.
While you wait for the bottle jack couldn't you just tip the shopsmith back down and then slide the whole main table with router table up or down???
Ed
We had some postings at the other site about setting up the OPR and had some info from a person who had taken a class and gotten some hints. The whole post is at:
http://ssug.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=7142
and you will have to go down into the post to get to the information.
What it amounted to was putting a couple of 2x2's in place of the jack to space the table assembly up. They were 8" long. Then a secondary block that is 4-5/8 (this might be other values depending on operations/wood thickness/bit length. It is placed to space the arm from the table. It goes between the table and the arm assembly.
While you wait for the bottle jack couldn't you just tip the shopsmith back down and then slide the whole main table with router table up or down???
Ed
{Knight of the Shopsmith} [Hero's don't wear capes, they wear dog tags]
After the second disassemble - I feel I have a pretty good working knowledge of all of the movable parts on the OPR. Today I took the thing apart and inspected all of the parts. (Even the little spring loaded nipple in the end of a set screw).
Took 17 photos, since we can show only 5 per post these were selected to show what I experienced with movement of the router while "locked" and the last two may show faint possibility of why the router was not exactly at 90 degrees to the table. (or exactly parallel - depending on setup)
First there's the issue of the "hardened"
shoulder bolt.
Here's pix No.1 showing the smashed ridges (knurls)
[ATTACH]625[/ATTACH]
Here's No. 2 showing the smashed ridges after brass brushing.
[ATTACH]624[/ATTACH]
Here's No. 3 - The end of the handle bolt - this was after I filed off the big rolled metal splinter that came from the dish along the outside edge of the bolt;
[ATTACH]623[/ATTACH]
Here's No. 4 The seats where the router fits (on the fixed side of the router clamp). The original "pads" have been lost as they wouldn't stick to the metal. I am using carpet tape for pads.
[ATTACH]622[/ATTACH]
Here's No. 5. These are the clamping pads. The one on the right is the only original pad. There was enough glue under this one to hold it in place. The one on the left is carpet tape. I see there is sawdust under parts of both pads.
[ATTACH]621[/ATTACH]
The other day I had filed enough of the handle bolt to remove the big high spot and make the edges fairly level. Not a real good filing job, but it worked for the mortise/tenon job. I had also rotated the shoulder bolt so the handle closed onto the pristine parts of the ridges. This probably also helped.
Today, during the photo session, I filed down all of the splines on the shoulder bolt so they are still there, but now fairly even in height. I also took the file after the handle and with an engineers square made the end almost perfectly level. No more dished end. I really don't believe the dished end in the bolt helped to secure the movement. After doing this filing, I tried it out. The handle tightening was really effective in preventing movement. Yes the bolt had indentations where it engaged the splines, these were all in the center of the bolt. Didn't notice any change in the splines.
My assessment is; the splines were too high, making the tips of the splines weak and susceptible to bending/smashing. Also the handle bolt was dished and had an uneven edge. Also noticed the handle does not center on the splines. It is off a bit toward one edge of the splines. Now, that the bolt strikes at it's center and the splines are shorter/stronger, there is firm contact.
Incidentally the splines were not very hard to file down. This shoulder bolt is only medium in hardness. (a little harder than white oak)
Now it's all fixed! only one more question - When tightening the nut on the left end of the shaft - it would be nice to be able to hold on to the splined end. There is a allen wrench hole in the end of the shaft inside of the splines, but it is too small for a 1/4" wrench and too large for a 6 mm wrench. Are 5.5mm allen wrenches available? Maybe I should file down a 1/4" wrench to fit?
Took 17 photos, since we can show only 5 per post these were selected to show what I experienced with movement of the router while "locked" and the last two may show faint possibility of why the router was not exactly at 90 degrees to the table. (or exactly parallel - depending on setup)
First there's the issue of the "hardened"
shoulder bolt. Here's pix No.1 showing the smashed ridges (knurls)
[ATTACH]625[/ATTACH]
Here's No. 2 showing the smashed ridges after brass brushing.
[ATTACH]624[/ATTACH]
Here's No. 3 - The end of the handle bolt - this was after I filed off the big rolled metal splinter that came from the dish along the outside edge of the bolt;
[ATTACH]623[/ATTACH]
Here's No. 4 The seats where the router fits (on the fixed side of the router clamp). The original "pads" have been lost as they wouldn't stick to the metal. I am using carpet tape for pads.
[ATTACH]622[/ATTACH]
Here's No. 5. These are the clamping pads. The one on the right is the only original pad. There was enough glue under this one to hold it in place. The one on the left is carpet tape. I see there is sawdust under parts of both pads.
[ATTACH]621[/ATTACH]
The other day I had filed enough of the handle bolt to remove the big high spot and make the edges fairly level. Not a real good filing job, but it worked for the mortise/tenon job. I had also rotated the shoulder bolt so the handle closed onto the pristine parts of the ridges. This probably also helped.
Today, during the photo session, I filed down all of the splines on the shoulder bolt so they are still there, but now fairly even in height. I also took the file after the handle and with an engineers square made the end almost perfectly level. No more dished end. I really don't believe the dished end in the bolt helped to secure the movement. After doing this filing, I tried it out. The handle tightening was really effective in preventing movement. Yes the bolt had indentations where it engaged the splines, these were all in the center of the bolt. Didn't notice any change in the splines.
My assessment is; the splines were too high, making the tips of the splines weak and susceptible to bending/smashing. Also the handle bolt was dished and had an uneven edge. Also noticed the handle does not center on the splines. It is off a bit toward one edge of the splines. Now, that the bolt strikes at it's center and the splines are shorter/stronger, there is firm contact.
Incidentally the splines were not very hard to file down. This shoulder bolt is only medium in hardness. (a little harder than white oak)
Now it's all fixed! only one more question - When tightening the nut on the left end of the shaft - it would be nice to be able to hold on to the splined end. There is a allen wrench hole in the end of the shaft inside of the splines, but it is too small for a 1/4" wrench and too large for a 6 mm wrench. Are 5.5mm allen wrenches available? Maybe I should file down a 1/4" wrench to fit?
- Attachments
-
- original pad on right of pix.jpg (133.9 KiB) Viewed 20842 times
-
- pads made from carpet tape.jpg (131.18 KiB) Viewed 20854 times
-
- end of handle showing wear.jpg (104.9 KiB) Viewed 20854 times
-
- splines after brass brushing.jpg (119.07 KiB) Viewed 20853 times
-
- smashed splines.jpg (172.94 KiB) Viewed 20860 times
Octogenarian's have an earned right to be a curmudgeon.
Chuck in Lancaster, CA
Chuck in Lancaster, CA