Shopsmith Forums

Kreg jig is just another way to do something.
Of course you can nail them, mortise and tendon them, biscuit joint them, use splines, dowel them, use corragated miter nails, use nothing but glue, use only nails and the list goes on.

Pocket screws are great but the joint is only as good as your clamping holding the joint together before you drive the screw. If the wood is misaligned or slips while you are driving the screw the joint will suffer.

Norm of Old Yankee Workshop fame built everything with glue and nail gun, that is until the "purist" complained about his use of nails. Then he went to mortise and tendons, biscuits or some other joint. However everytime he had a chance he slipped in the old trusty nail gun.

The biggest thing you want to do is make sure whatever you do leaves a pleasing look. Beautiful wood can look ugly if you see a jambled bunch of nails holding it together, or a misaligned joint or sloppy glue joint.

Take your time, work at you pace and use what you have available.

Woodworking is very forgiving and I believe real craftsman ship is the ability to cover oops, ah hecks, and other stupid mistakes.

I once built a set of three end tables using fairly expensive wood. When I got done they looked like engine stands.

I was this close .. to taking them and burning them.

Then I got in recovery mode and by cutting down the size of the legs, putting a few fancy edges and chaffering a little wood here and a little there they turned out very nice, even if I do say so myself.

Take you time and remember not to be too hard on yourself.

post some pictures!

There are several ways to accomplish a task. I have found the Kreg Jig a huge asset to my tools. I do alot of face frames and it's easy to use and results are first rate. I used mine to build a fence around my home and it fit the bill perfectly. The old fence was nail and fell apart after years of use, the screws however provide a much stronger joint than the nails.

I have built many cabinets and find that the speed and strength of the kreg jig plus the ease of use has been the right set up for my uses. I found that my $139.00 kreg jig is even more handy to use than the $3000 commericial machine in my buddys cabinet shop.

missfixit wrote:As to the SS drilling pocket holes -- I figured it would be a crazy amount of break down and set up and that I should just use my drill. Maybe I am wrong about that.

I wood think that it wood be PRETTY HARD to drill pocket holes with a hand drill.

missfixit wrote:IHere are my questions:

1. Is the Kreg Pocket Hole jig really necessary? Why can't I simply use wood glue and my nail gun to put the face framing onto built-in cabinets? Do I *have to* use pocket holes?

2. If pocket holes are necessary, is there any way to do it without a Kreg? Because that system requires you to use their screws only, and I'm never a fan of a tool that traps you into only using one manufacturer's products.

Hi Miss Fixit...

When I read your question I wondered if you might be talking about production cabinet making, which I think would require a different answer than if you are just involved in a smaller scale project. For a home remodel scale project, and if you are set on pocket hole joinery, I think you might be well served by giving the Shopsmith a chance. The drill press mode set-up is quick and if you have have a number of frame pieces prepared before switching from table saw to drill press you should not have to keep switching back and forth. And in any event the change overs between modes are not as difficult or time consuming as some would have you believe.

I have done a few face frames with pocket holes, but I prefer mortise and tenon joints, because those joints are traditional, strong and satisfying to build, but I agree that it is a slower way to go. As has been pointed out, there are a number of ways to join a face frame and pocket hole joinery is a good quick and strong option. Take a look at Power Tool Woodworking for Everyone on the Shopsmith web site. Illustration 7-32 in the Drill Press chapter shows a method for drilling pocket holes.

Good luck with your project and if you do go with the Kreg jig I would be interested in hearing how it works for you.

I like the Kreg Pocket Hole Jigs and I believe pocket screws are useful and an efficient way to secure joints of all descriptions. However, they do require some practice. In the beginning, not all joints will be something to be proud of.

I like biscuits too. I even use dowels from time to time.

The nice thing about pocket screws is that there is less need to keep the clamps applied once the screws have been installed.

+1
The myriad of applications made simpler and faster with the use of the Kreg Jig makes it one of the best tools buys I've made. Well, aside from the MKV, that is.

stevespix wrote:There are several ways to accomplish a task. I have found the Kreg Jig a huge asset to my tools. I do alot of face frames and it's easy to use and results are first rate. I used mine to build a fence around my home and it fit the bill perfectly. The old fence was nail and fell apart after years of use, the screws however provide a much stronger joint than the nails.

I have built many cabinets and find that the speed and strength of the kreg jig plus the ease of use has been the right set up for my uses. I found that my $139.00 kreg jig is even more handy to use than the $3000 commericial machine in my buddys cabinet shop.

beeg wrote:I wood think that it wood be PRETTY HARD to drill pocket holes with a hand drill.

I have drilled many a pocket hole using both electric hand held drills as well as the original cordless models (hand crank) without the use of a jig. It takes the right technique, sharp bit, and a steady hand. The issues are uniformity, repeat ability, (implying appearance) and speed. Ideally a pocket hole joint is used in a location where appearance is not an issue. So speed becomes the issue. I'm a hobbyist, not a professional on deadlines. I make maybe 10 pocket holes a year if that. I personally can not justify the purchase of a pocket hole jig. It seems like a fad to me in the hobbyist wood worker market. I wonder how many have been purchased one of these because "it's the coolest thing ever and I have to have one" and are just sitting in a drawer waiting on a project. Or purchased used once or twice and stored away. I can understand a professional cabinet maker or even handyman having one of these. It's just not for me.

I'm on my third version of the system, and I started out with a really simple version, found I liked it and then well my collection grew.

I'll reference a post I did back in Feb when Kreg had a $15 off deal, I had a Rockler 20% off coupon.... anyway that is over but you can see a bit of shopping can save you some $$ and if that is still too much they have cheaper solutions.

https://forum.shopsmith.com/viewtopic.php?t=9828

I built a test shelf system (storage of banker boxes) a couple of years back. It combined the use of biscuits and pocket hole's. The shelf has if I recall 68 pocket holes.... Now that I have concluded testing it under load I plan to build 9 more, 612 more hole, and the reason I wanted a better system.

I have several doors under test on sheds in the back yard, all done with pocket holes and san glue, so far no sags or other problems over the last few years.

No they are not just for cabinets, if you check out the kreg site they can give you even more ideas.

I'd say it is a very handy tool and has a place in my shop, as do all of the tools I have. If you like to be creative this can help you out.

Ed

missfixit wrote:Thanks guys, I didn't know that I could buy other screws that would fit the Kreg.

I am considering the Kreg jr because it's cheaper and I think it will handle what I want to do.

As to the SS drilling pocket holes -- I figured it would be a crazy amount of break down and set up and that I should just use my drill. Maybe I am wrong about that.

You should be fine with the Kreg Jr. And you can use your finish nailer and glue to attach the face frames to the cabinet box. You will find the pocket screw system will be the best way to attach your face frame parts together. In the past that was done with mortise and tenon joinery or dowels. Pocket screws are a lot faster and user friendly. There are a lot of screws available that will work with the jig.

wow okay, after reading this thread I am going to go ahead and try the kreg jr.

I was originally wondering why I would bother with it when I can just nail and glue face frames to the boxes...I am in love with my nail gun so I like to use it on everything. Also -- this may upset the wood purists but I prefer painted finishes for cabinetry. So I am not worrying about the nail holes messing up the finish.

But once it dawned on me that I should attach the rails and stiles together before putting it on the cabinet... I'll get the kreg!

This is my first attempt at cabinet building so I'm probably going to make a giant mess. I don't want to post pictures because it'll be too embarrassing. But maybe after I get the hang of it. ha I will watch some videos and I have a Norm book on built-ins.