Shopsmith Forums

I have posted on these before, so why not continue the tradition? Okay, here is another attempt at making a cheaper alternative to the Festool Domino. I posted previously about Woodpecker's Morty (viewtopic.php?p=283809#p283809), which appears to be no longer in production now. I also posted about the Jessem Pocket Mill Pro (viewtopic.php?p=303339#p303339). Then there was the cheaper quality Kreg version of it called the MortiseMate (viewtopic.php?p=318605#p318605). All of these made similar sized loose tenon style joints to what the Festool Domino produces, but at a cheaper price point - though much, much slower and with less precision than a Festool Domino. I like Andrew Klein and he is always looking for an opportunity to invent something new to help improve things in the shop. In the video below he shows that he has the larger Festool Domino (df700). I have the smaller Festool Domino (df500) and I haven't seen ANY of the issues he complains about with his larger Domino, except of course that the Festool Domino is expensive. Also, I am NOT trying to sell anyone here on the Festool Domino, just share a new tool release for anyone who may be interested. Many love the horizontal boring that they can do with their Shopsmith, or prefer making M&T joints with it. IF you are happy with this and don't need a portable tool for joinery, then you can ignore this post. While Klein offers the Trinity as a Domino replacement, I see it more as another, in a long line, of dowel joinery jigs. There is nothing wrong with dowel joinery and I used it successfully for many years before choosing to switch to the Domino. The Trinity looks well engineered and well made, but I think it is more of a copy of previous attempts at dowel jigs in the woodworking industry, but it has a really nice looking fence system, kinda copied from the Festool Domino fence setup IMHO. Maybe this new fence system will be worth it to some woodworkers. Let me know what you think of this new $349 dowel joinery jig. IF you find this product interesting, let us know what you like. I wish Andrew success, but I believe this is an already crowded marketplace with dowel joinery jigs.

Andrew Klein's Trinity Pre-sale Link:
https://www.in-kleind.com/products/trinity-presale

I applaud Andy's innovative thinking and have purchased a few times from him. However, I'm not interested in this, at least not in this draft configuration. I have two different generations of JessEm dowel jigs, the latter of which has the ability to align with an existing dowel on the opposite piece to allow precise drilling the mating hole; no relying on getting it right with a pencil mark where there is no room for error (as I understand it, the Domino can create loose slots in the horizontal so that alignment doesn't have to be exact). I also recently purchased a PantoRouter that in my limited experience with it so far works great at making mortises and tenons, tight or loose, but would be problematic on large, heavy materials such as slabs for tables.

The issues I see with Andy's Trinity jig include needing special drill bits, one of which runs opposite the other two -- what other options than Andy to get these bits; no precise locating ability other than from the edge of material nor do I see an option to index for additional sets of holes; and it looks unwieldy to me.

I'm hoping with the Domino patent supposedly expiring sometime this year to see much less expensive portable loose tenon machines. I have some planned projects that would benefit from loose, loose tenons, but presently would be hard to justify the Festool.

Roy,

Thanks. Yeah, I like Andy and hope to one day figure out some place in my shop where I can fit one of his turbo vises. I love almost everything that Jessem makes and I still have my aluminum body dowel jig from them. Their newer stainless steel version looks really nice. It worked well for me for many years and produced tight fitting joints. When I watched closely near the end of Andy's video when he dry assembled two pieces joined by dowels I saw the piece rotate indicating those dowel joints were not tight. This is something I wondered about his jig's design and execution. I would have to see it in person though to really know if it is a problem or not. This is one of the weak links of the other loose tenon jigs I mentioned up above, i.e. not producing a tight fitting joint. The Festool Domino has the tight setting and it works well, but it also has a loose setting for joints that don't need to be tight. For example, on a large panel, table/desk top assembly I would make the joint near the edges tight, but for the interior joints down the length of the panel, they can be on the loose setting. They will still give perfect alignment of the boards top to bottom, but have some room to slide left or right so that panel assembly is a breeze. Not trying to sell anyone on the Domino. I had a hard time justifying the cost initially and I still do. It is an expensive tool, but it works remarkably well. I like the speed and effortless dust collection with it compared to using making M&T's on my Mark V or with using the Jessem dowel jig. I still enjoy the build quality and results that I got with my Jessem dowel jig, so who knows I may still use it at times in the future. I thought I had seen a doweling woodworking tool that did a similar operation to Andy's jig. It has it's own motor and I can't remember if it was 2 dowel holes at once or 3. I just can't remember the name, but I thought this idea had already been made into a product by someone else? Andy is saving cost for the customer by using a cordless drill with it, but honestly I find this problematic. The point of having a portable joinery solution is to easily take the tool to the workpiece. The Festool Domino has this, but so do biscuit joiners and etc.. It seems rather awkward and clunky to attach a cordless drill to one of the jigs to operate them IMHO. Woodpeckers stopped making the Morty which was a router based solution, but I wonder how popular (how many units sold) the Jessem or Kreg loose tenon products are?

Besides the Jessem/Kreg and Woodpecker, I recall seeing a chineseum design or two. But all seem too clunky to me.

I occasionally look for a Domino on Craigslist and FB Marketplace, but the few I see even remotely nearby want nearly new price. I might well end up buying one if no new good machines show up this year as I have some projects that I'm not sure any other alignment system would work well compared to loose loose tenons.

I can't find the one that I remember, but Grizzly has a dual doweling jointer for $159. Triton also made a dual dowel jointer, but I don't think it is sold in the US anymore - I first saw it advertised in the UK. Of course, if cost is no issue, then Mafell offers a very high end dual dowel jointer at $1600. Yeah, I tried to go the used route, but I couldn't find any Festool Domino's in my local market that weren't nearly new price unfortunately.

https://www.grizzly.com/products/grizzl ... 8Tf2zKjmqQ

https://www.timberwolftools.com/mafell- ... wel-system

BTW, speaking of vises, have you seen the Hovarter vises? I'm planning on getting one and maybe a few of these eventually. To operate, turn handle a partial turn to unlock, slide jaw by hand to open, insert material, push jaw in, partial turn to tighten and lock. Has an option for a slotted front jaw "bearing" that allows the front jaw to angle to some degree.

Remove space to get good link: hovartercustomvise.com /product/face-vise-hardware-kit

Roy,

Thanks. Yes, I have heard of Hovarter. I stumbled on them in the past when I was looking at the Veritas twin screw vises, which I understand has some issues I believe. I understand the Hovarter vise to be superior to the Veritas one. I really don't need the Andy Klein design vise and Hovarter would be less expensive. I will probably end up building a vise using Hovarter hardware. I was inspired by a couple of people on the forum that did Mark V mounted vises last year (links below). I just have to get around to building it. Also, I love that Hovarter is Made in the USA.

viewtopic.php?p=322988#p322988

viewtopic.php?p=322530#p322530

Roy,

Forgot to mention before, congrats on the PantoRouter! I hear it is an amazing machine.

RF Guy, yeah, it's a pretty neat tool. I found a gently used current model at too good of a price that was a short detour during a trip a while back. I've not had a chance to use it other than some test cuts, but I did those nearly as quick and with excellent fit as shown in various videos.

Mafell makes a dual dowel tool, which is quality and not inexpensive. I know Tritan makes one as well that is not well received.
https://ddf40.mafell.de/en/