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PowerPro Woes...

wa2crk

This is a quote from the SS website.

"Smoother, Quieter Operation" is stated as a benefit of the PP

Bill V

shopsmithpaul

If I am missing something it appears the quill can be removed and switched with his other quill to test it out. Sue was quoted saying to loosen the quill retaining screw on the top to help the retraction issue. If you can do that you can remove the quill without warranty implications I would think. It seems to me the problem is in the spline quill shaft alignment to the top end rear bearing or a bent or off center spline shaft. I had a similar problem with a 510 and it was a bad joint of the spline shaft in the quill. If any pressure was applied to the quill weather it be by the quill lock, side pressure to the quill, or just being retracted against headstock the vibration went away. just a few thoughts.

JPG

I think it is time to address one problem at a time.

So since 'she' told you to check the keyway on the top of the quill, remove the half dog setscrew. Does it retract fully now?

Next step depends upon the answer.

neal560sl

My DIY PowerPro runs smooth as silk, but the quill doesn't retract the way it should either. I have removed it probably a dozen times at least and it still bothers. If it were me I would ask for a replacement if it was bought as a ready assembled unit. They need to make it right!

reible

I still think that shopsmith needs to make this right. You should NOT have a vibration issue.

The quill is another thing, for that I have found it will need working in. The parts are not a perfect match and some "wearing in" takes place. I have swapped out the old single bearing quills on the three machines I own and have replace a worn 2 bearing quill as well as replacing the quills in the two powerpros. In every case the fit was not great for a while but wore in over the period of a short while. That even happens if you swap quills between machines.

The newest powerpro took the longest of the ones I have done, I'm thinking because of the colder weather. It is also important to wax the teeth, use a tooth brush to make sure you get in to the nooks and get it covered and brushed off again. I normally do it twice, wax on wax off wax on wax off.

Cotton q-tips work really great a finding burrs. Drag the q-tip along it will catch on the burr, yes you have to do it both ways because it is possible to have the catch only happening in one direction due to the nature of the burr.

I think the quill sticking issue will work itself out.

BTW I have a habit of taking the quill out after it seems to be wearing in and often find metal bits left in the teeth. Clean them out and wax again.

Ed

algale

Is the quill "wearing in" issue that Ed describes one that folks have found to be true with the Mark V as well? If not, what is different about the Power Pro headstock that makes the quill not a perfect match from the outset?

reible wroteI still think that shopsmith needs to make this right. You should NOT have a vibration issue.

The quill is another thing, for that I have found it will need working in. The parts are not a perfect match and some "wearing in" takes place. I have swapped out the old single bearing quills on the three machines I own and have replace a worn 2 bearing quill as well as replacing the quills in the two powerpros. In every case the fit was not great for a while but wore in over the period of a short while. That even happens if you swap quills between machines.

The newest powerpro took the longest of the ones I have done, I'm thinking because of the colder weather. It is also important to wax the teeth, use a tooth brush to make sure you get in to the nooks and get it covered and brushed off again. I normally do it twice, wax on wax off wax on wax off.

Cotton q-tips work really great a finding burrs. Drag the q-tip along it will catch on the burr, yes you have to do it both ways because it is possible to have the catch only happening in one direction due to the nature of the burr.

I think the quill sticking issue will work itself out.

BTW I have a habit of taking the quill out after it seems to be wearing in and often find metal bits left in the teeth. Clean them out and wax again.

Ed

dusty

algale wroteIs the quill "wearing in" issue that Ed describes one that folks have found to be true with the Mark V as well? If not, what is different about the Power Pro headstock that makes the quill not a perfect match from the outset?

reible wroteI still think that shopsmith needs to make this right. You should NOT have a vibration issue.

The quill is another thing, for that I have found it will need working in. The parts are not a perfect match and some "wearing in" takes place. I have swapped out the old single bearing quills on the three machines I own and have replace a worn 2 bearing quill as well as replacing the quills in the two powerpros. In every case the fit was not great for a while but wore in over the period of a short while. That even happens if you swap quills between machines.

The newest powerpro took the longest of the ones I have done, I'm thinking because of the colder weather. It is also important to wax the teeth, use a tooth brush to make sure you get in to the nooks and get it covered and brushed off again. I normally do it twice, wax on wax off wax on wax off.

Cotton q-tips work really great a finding burrs. Drag the q-tip along it will catch on the burr, yes you have to do it both ways because it is possible to have the catch only happening in one direction due to the nature of the burr.

I think the quill sticking issue will work itself out.

BTW I have a habit of taking the quill out after it seems to be wearing in and often find metal bits left in the teeth. Clean them out and wax again.

Ed

Very good question. I, fortunately, have not had the experience. If I have, it was so long ago that I don't recall. Believe, if there is such a phenomena, it occurred long ago.

I understand burrs becoming an issue but "wearing in" is foreign to my thinking.

I'll be watching this thread closely.

My manufacturing back gound makes me want to research the vendor list. Who made what and when.

dusty

Ed in Tampa wroteFour weeks???????????? WoW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Is Shopsmith that busy?

Hopefully, this time of year but 4 weeks seems excessive for a quality issue that is under warranty. I would think that a "new warranted PowerPro" would go directly to the work bench and it would be attended to by the Quality Control Manager.

dusty

TomH wroteOk, well, Fedex delived the package on Saturday so I got the headstock mounted today, waxed the quill and tried it out after the alleged repair.

NO DIFFERENCE FROM WHEN IT WAS SENT IN! STILL CHATTERS LIKE A JACKHAMMER WHEN EXTENDING THE QUILL! :mad:

So this leads me to several thoughts:

1. That's the way it's supposed to work which would be sad since my original headstock was smooth as silk.

2. SS got pissed I called to find out when they were going to fix it and they just shipped it back without doing anything. Again, sad customer service, seems I should be able to ask about my repair.

No documentation on what if anything was done, pretty sure they just held on to it for a couple of weeks then shipped it back.

So using the 1/4"bit setting (1700 rpm), it's like holding on to a palm sander or something it vibrates so hard. Can't wait to try it at a faster speed, that's going to be very special. And guess what, doesn't drill a decent hole with that vibration either, unless you want oval holes.

I give up. Guess I'll have to buy a drill press. Seems odd to spend that kind of money and get less of a machine than I had before. Purchased the original SS in 1997, never had a lick of trouble with it.

Remove the chuck and drill bit and then go through the drilling procedure. Do you feel all of the same vibrations and bindings?

Oval holes scream out to me - bad bearings, bent bits, bits chucked wrong. Especially when you report that all other functions are normal.

dusty

Opps. Oval holes are no longer a problem. Don't know why but this is a good thing.

Sticky quill - shouldn't be but should also be a customer resolved issue. If not - insist on a new quill.

STILL CHATTERS LIKE A JACKHAMMER WHEN EXTENDING THE QUILL! - maybe a slight exaggeration???

neal560sl

I still say I would lean on them pretty hard for a new replacement and then they could figure out what is wrong with the problem unit in their own sweet time.

dusty

Just a question out of curiosity.

You state that you upgraded to the PowerPro headstock. Which method of upgrade 1)purchased new, 2)refurbished headstock or 3)your headstock, reconditioned?

wa2crk

Dusty

He said in his second post that was a complete new headstock.

I believe that he is in line for a replacement unit that meets Shopsmith's stated specs and claims as stated on the website.

Bill V

dusty

wa2crk wroteDusty

He said in his second post that was a complete new headstock.

I believe that he is in line for a replacement unit that meets Shopsmith's stated specs and claims as stated on the website.

Bill V

Yes, I understand. I got a new car, too. It is a 2006 Chev Impala.

JPG

Now about retraction???

I gotta think tight setscrew and/or inadequate tension.

Tolerance buildup! BS!

Wear in MORE SAME.

Not happy with all that 'merde'.

dusty

wa2crk wroteDusty

He said in his second post that was a complete new headstock.

I believe that he is in line for a replacement unit that meets Shopsmith's stated specs and claims as stated on the website.

Bill V

The warranty applies no matter which upgrade version he got.

When the question popped into my head, I was thinking what other items could possibly contribute. The list is short. Idler Shaft and Sleeve Assy, Casting (Bearing Race Alignment???).

Then there is the probability that we just do not have a good feel for the problem. Troubleshooting without being able to touch, feel, hear, see the symptoms is difficult.

reible

JPG wroteNow about retraction???

I gotta think tight setscrew and/or inadequate tension.

Tolerance buildup! BS!

Wear in MORE SAME.

Not happy with all that 'merde'.

The more common but disliked in common practice is the term break-in, which was replaced with the more liked wear-in. You don't believe? So did your new cars come with the instructions to do what for the first 1000 or xxxx miles and then do an oil change? Now more precision and finer designs have made this a not so common thing but we have a design from the 1950's which will have a break-in period if you will.

I have seen this happen way to many times and each and every time I change quills to think that it happens to some extent all the time. If you observe it or not.

The fact that it has just happened again with my new powerpro makes it fresh in my mind.

Ed

JPG

The motors breakin is a different degree than a quill. Those tolerances are far smaller than any associated with the quill. IIUC the car breakin was essentially cylinder wall to rings and the linearity of the wall surface.

Since the quill is a less demanding machining implementation and the interfacing parts count so low, I consider a breakin for the quill to be the result of either too loose tolerances or poor surfaces.

Then however, it is not intended to be a very precise fit anyway.

Ed and Dusty may be correct that the 'issue' is 'typical' of new parts fit.

The vibration however is a puzzle. Touchy-feely here would indeed help like pix do otherwise.

dusty

JPG wroteThe motors breakin is a different degree than a quill. Those tolerances are far smaller than any associated with the quill. IIUC the car breakin was essentially cylinder wall to rings and the linearity of the wall surface.

Since the quill is a less demanding machining implementation and the interfacing parts count so low, I consider a breakin for the quill to be the result of either too loose tolerances or poor surfaces.

Then however, it is not intended to be a very precise fit anyway.

Ed and Dusty may be correct that the 'issue' is 'typical' of new parts fit.

The vibration however is a puzzle. Touchy-feely here would indeed help like pix do otherwise.

I obviously stated my position poorly. I do not accept this as an example of new parts working poorly together. What are we really talking about. The quill housing and a few bearings along with their respective seats (races).

If this is a parts issue, I would immediate suspect that Shopsmith has lost control over their vendors. NONE of the aforementioned parts are new in the Shopsmith inventory.

Sticky quill could be the result of a problem in the quill control; we have not talked about that (I think because it is obscure).

reible

So I got a new powerpro not long ago. I got a used "C" skull and cleaned and painted it up waiting for the arrival of the kit. I think put it together and it has been in use for just a short while now.

The quill was stiff when I first used it, not wanting to retract smoothly for the last part of the stroke. I used it for a while then pulled the quill and cleaned it up and re-waxed it. In a short while it was working like normal and the sticking or lack of smoothness was gone it works just like all of my other experiences with shopsmith quills.

As I have indicted this has happened each and everytime I have put a new quill in. Sometime more, some times less. This case was probably the longest it has taken. It did happen.

So as long as we were on the subject I had just finished another drilling project so I had the time to pull the quill again. Now this is the second time since it was put together.

Since we have the rule that without pictures it didn't happen I got the camera and shot some pictures. You will see what I saw. I also place a sheet of white paper down so what ever fell off could be seen. So the pictures please.......

So since there are pictures you must know it happened.

I cleaned it up with at tooth brush and re-waxed it. Its back together and working fine. I also adjusted the spring for a little less pressure, I like it better that way.

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