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New to Me Model 10E Serial Number 1077

chapmanruss

Hi John,

I did look at the manual and drawings which is why my question to Everett.

Everett are the drawings for the Original Manual you restored from that manual or did you create them?

You would know the answer too. Are the drawings on pages 22 and 23 originals from the manual or did Everett create them? They show the Splitter part # 103-30 that looks the same as the later ones. I am assuming the two lines by the arrow, not including the slot, show the knife edge the Slpitter has. [attachment=1]$matches[2][/attachment]
Of interest, on the other page, the drawings show the 8" Lathe Tool Rest as two pieces with part numbers 105-1 & 105-3 which is what I have for this early 10E. It became one piece soon after that.

10E slpitter.png

105-1 Tool Rest - 105-3 Post - back s.jpg

jsburger

chapmanruss wroteHi John,

I did look at the manual and drawings which is why my question to Everett.
Everett are the drawings for the Original Manual you restored from that manual or did you create them?
You would know the answer too. Are the drawings on pages 22 and 23 originals from the manual or did Everett create them? They show the Splitter part # 103-30 that looks the same as the later ones. I am assuming the two lines by the arrow, not including the slot, show the knife edge the Slpitter has. $matches[2]

Of interest, on the other page, the drawings show the 8" Lathe Tool Rest as two pieces with part numbers 105-1 & 105-3 which is what I have for this early 10E. It became one piece soon after that.105-1 Tool Rest - 105-3 Post - back s.jpg

Yes the drawings in the restored manual are from my original. The leading edge of the newer splitter is wider from the pivot slot I think. Hence the wider slot in the guard. Could you not cut down one of the newer brackets to fit the shallower slot in the older guard?

I too was wondering about the double lines. I agree with your explanation but it seems like an odd way to depict it in that view.

everettdavis

chapmanruss wroteHi John,

I did look at the manual and drawings which is why my question to Everett.
Everett are the drawings for the Original Manual you restored from that manual or did you create them?
You would know the answer too. Are the drawings on pages 22 and 23 originals from the manual or did Everett create them? They show the Splitter part # 103-30 that looks the same as the later ones. I am assuming the two lines by the arrow, not including the slot, show the knife edge the Slpitter has. $matches[2]

Of interest, on the other page, the drawings show the 8" Lathe Tool Rest as two pieces with part numbers 105-1 & 105-3 which is what I have for this early 10E. It became one piece soon after that.105-1 Tool Rest - 105-3 Post - back s.jpg

I realize John has already answered it. John posted his preliminary manual on Vintage Machinery some years before I obtained a high resolution scan to work from.

If you will download a slightly lower resolution copy of that original you can see the source material I worked from if that helps you.

Everett

chapmanruss

Thanks John and Everett

John you said

I too was wondering about the double lines. I agree with your explanation but it seems like an odd way to depict it in that view.

I agree it is an odd way to depict the knife edge if that is what the drawings is trying to show. The knife edge is normally about a 45 degree angle but the drawing shows the next line about half way to the slot. It would make it a very shallow angle knife edge, more like a kitchen knife. That is about where the edge would need to be for the Blade Guard's shorter cut. I hate to change an existing splitter since they are commonly missing from the Blade Guard assembly when found. I made a pattern some time ago for cutting out the Splitter so I may try to make one. Another option would be to extend the slot on the Blade Guard but I would prefer not to alter it. I already have more Blade Guards than Splitters.

chapmanruss

I have been taking a closer look at this problem. The drawing for the splitter is a little confusing. The line I am pointing at above I labeled the knife edge should not exist since the guard requires a narrower area between the outside edge and the slot. I looked at some of the slitters I have and some of the early ones do not have the 45 degree cut edge but have a straight 90 degree edge.

Although the two guards pictured above look the same except for the slot, the later one on the left has a casting line through the middle but the early one on the right does not.

It is these small differences I am trying to find and document. It makes me wonder if I should dissemble my 10E S/N 4708 and get pictures of the individual parts before I sell it. It is the closest one I have to this 10E. I will get pictures of the individual parts of the other 10E and three 10ER's I have to restore as I work on them. I plan to do some touch up work on my 10ER S/N 64000 so I will get individual part pictures of it then. First I need to restore the 5 waiting ones.

jsburger

chapmanruss wroteI have been taking a closer look at this problem. The drawing for the splitter is a little confusing. The line I am pointing at above I labeled the knife edge should not exist since the guard requires a narrower area between the outside edge and the slot. I looked at some of the slitters I have and some of the early ones do not have the 45 degree cut edge but have a straight 90 degree edge.

Although the two guards pictured above look the same except for the slot, the later one on the left has a casting line through the middle but the early one on the right does not.

It is these small differences I am trying to find and document. It makes me wonder if I should dissemble my 10E S/N 4708 and get pictures of the individual parts before I sell it. It is the closest one I have to this 10E. I will get pictures of the individual parts of the other 10E and three 10ER's I have to restore as I work on them. I plan to do some touch up work on my 10ER S/N 64000 so I will get individual part pictures of it then. First I need to restore the 5 waiting ones.

That is a cosmetic thing. Could it be that in the beginning of production they took more care to grind that casting line off and as production ramped up a little less care was taken on some of the purely cosmetic things?

JPG

At the risk of confusing the current issue, here are three 10 guards that I have.

The left one is I believe the original that arrived with my 10E.

The other two are of unknown vintage/history although I think they are increasingly younger from left to right.(oldest to the left)

In addition to the omission of the side slots, I believe the middle one is pour cast and the right one is die cast.

Note the riving knife slot varies as well as the length of the rear projection.

The last pix shows two riving knife brackets. Tho one on top is I believe a later version and it is plated whereas the 'original 10E one is not plated.

Note the different 'grind' on the edge of the riving knife. Also it is on the side opposite the drawing in the earlier discussion regarding the extra line. The shape is the same(bends/holes etc..

[attachment=4]$matches[2][/attachment]

[attachment=3]$matches[2][/attachment]

[attachment=2]$matches[2][/attachment]

[attachment=1]$matches[2][/attachment]

guard 10 a.jpg

guard 10 b.jpg

guard 10 c.jpg

guard 10 d.jpg

guard 10 e.jpg

chapmanruss

John you could be correct about the casting line that they quit grinding them off.

JPG thanks for adding here. The three guard styles are the same ones I have. I believe the slotted one is the first since they have come only with Model 10E's I have purchased. The one in the middle of your picture (the bottom one in my picture below) I call the plain one and I believe is the last one produced. I only have one of these which I originally bought to replace a missing one but didn't use because it was the wrong version. The one on the right in your picture (middle one in my picture below) is a little fancier which I believe is the second guard style and the most common one that has come with the Model 10ER's I have purchased. I own or have owned 7 Model 10E's with Serial Numbers from 1077 to 25951 and 14 Model 10ER's with Serial Numbers from R33231 to 76928. Serial Number 76928 has the fancier second style guard. I cannot be sure when they changed to the plain style. Out of six 10ER above S/N 70000 I have seen pictures of that show Blade Guards only two had the plain/third version and they went back and forth between the second and third versions. We do know parts get mixed around.

I believe the top one is the first version, the middle one is the second version and the bottom one is the third and last version.

Saw Guards with Splitters r.jpg

chapmanruss

Well it is time to get back to work restoring this 10E. I have decided to make a splitter for the blade guard since I already have the right thickness metal. I do not want to cut down an existing one since I am already short two splitters for the blade guards I already have. This one and a 2nd version blade guard. I believe if I make it 5/16" narrower between the slot and the edge it should be correct. The metal sheet I have is more than wide enough to make this narrower one and a regular one. That will give me enough splitters for all my Model 10 blade guards. Something I have found is there are three versions of the splitter. The one I need to make for this 10E, the second version shown on the right in the picture below and the third version on the left in the picture below.Notice the one on the right has a lower slot and no knife edge. This is what I believe I should pattern the replacement after except narrower between the edge and slot.

chapmanruss

I have been working on the splitters over the last few days. I am getting close to done with them. A little finishing work and then add the 40 and 90 degree bends. Notice the one on the left with the narrower distance between the slot and the leading edge for Model 10E S/N 1077. Cutting the distance in half does work as I have already "fit" tested it.

[attachment=1]$matches[2][/attachment]
I do not have any fancy metal cutting tools so these have been done with hand tools and my Shopsmith tools. The first two cuts to get the metal pieces to width and length were done with a hand hacksaw. I used a sanding disk with some old paper on it to square up the first cuts made to get the metal to size. The holes were all drilled with the Shopsmith in the drill press mode. That is a Jig Saw without the upper arm in the picture above. A Jig Saw Blade on it did some of the cutting along with a half circle file (still on it) for smoothing edges. There is a couple of rough spots but they should function well. Below they are shown with factory splitters on the PDF of the pattern I made some time ago.

chapmanruss

The Splitters are done and both work as well as original ones. Here is the 10E narrower one on S/N 4708's table.

Next some more cleaning, prepping for paint and making the bench.

jsburger

Nice!!! :D

chapmanruss

I have several Model 10's to restore so I have been working on bench parts. I have the boards cut for three benches that will be on Shopsmith metal bench ends with retractable casters. Two of the bench ends sets are painted and I have to decide which wood will go on #1077's bench. A third bench ends set is ready to be painted. I have chosen fir wood that has some nice grain patterns over more exotic woods. Most benches I have seen are made of fir or pine and I wanted to keep this one similar to what would have been used originally.

The boards need to be edged and finished sanding. I need to decide which pair of boards to use for #1077, how dark to stain them and than finish them. Both of these pairs of boards have nice grain patterns. The third pair of boards is a little plain as far as the grain pattern goes.

All of the parts for #1077 are "cleaned up" and ready, for those needing painting, to be painted but I still need to clean up the Way Tubes. I have 5 Model 10's to be restored so I think I will have a Way Tube "cleaning" day soon and get them all done at once while the Mark V is set up for it.

bench wood 1077.jpg

chapmanruss

I routed the edges, finished sanded and stained the boards yesterday. I will start putting a finish on them today. I chose the set on the right in the picture above. They came out looking very nice and I like the knots in the grain pattern. I used a medium brown stain. I want the bench to look nice but not take away the focus of the important part of this project which is having #1077 restored.

chapmanruss

Re-assembly has begun. Yesterday I cleaned and polished the Way Tubes. I assembled the Bench and put the first part on the bench.
More to do with pictures to follow. I should have her all together, aligned and running by her 71st birthday (November 15, 1947 shipping day).

IMG_1510 r.jpg

amboyna

Can't wait to see the finished machine!

JPG

chapmanruss wroteRe-assembly has begun. Yesterday I cleaned and polished the Way Tubes. I assembled the Bench and put the first part on the bench.IMG_1510 r.jpg

More to do with pictures to follow. I should have her all together, aligned and running by her 71st birthday (November 15, 1947 shipping day).

So she and I share our birth date(but she is 9 years younger).

Looking forward to her reincarnation!(sadly I will not experience that for myself).

chapmanruss

Pictures to come but 1077 runs again. I still need to do alignments and final touches but 1077 came to life this afternoon. It has been a fun and educational process working on this Shopsmith Model 10E. Noticing the differences between it and later models. Just today putting the belt guard on I noticed it is different from the belt guard on S/N 4708. 4708 was the oldest Model 10 I had restored prior to getting 1077. 1077 has been sitting next to 4708 during reassembly. In the short time between 1077 being made and 4708 a number of changes/improvements were made. The headstock had two, first the pin for the spring housing was replaced with a cast on locator and the hole for the switch was moved up on the housing.4708 is destine for some disassembly/reassembly for pictures of individual parts for comparison.

102-1 Headstock S1 r.jpg

chapmanruss

Introducing Shopsmith Model 10E Serial Number 1077 back to life. The alignments still need to be done but she is together and running once again. This has been an interesting project to work on. Documenting the parts as I went and comparing them to the other Model 10's I currently have along with pictures of the restored ones I have already done and sold has given me more knowledge of the changes made to the Model 10's during their 6+ years in production. Known for their accuracy during production I have found that it didn't start out that way. Boring of the way tube holes in the headstock was "sloppy" in this case (see pictures below) but still accurate inside the headstock.By my next oldest one S/N 4708 the holes were straight and true.

1077 on bench r.jpg

Way Tubes Quill r.jpg

Way Tubes Drive r.jpg

chapmanruss

Finished at last and just in time for her 71st Anniversary. 71 years ago tomorrow this Model 10E was shipped with 249 other 10E's to the Montgomery Ward stores on the west coast. Thank you Everett for getting us the correct date from your research.

The alignments are done along with a final going over. She is ready to cut, sand, drill and turn wood projects. Although I do not intend on using this Shopsmith much on projects I will if I need an extra setup.

1077 restored 11-14-18.jpg

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