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Dust collection

ChrisNeilan

I have a Harbor Freight 2hp collector with the Wynn’s conversion filter and it works well. Has anybody tried to modify the dc3300 in a similar way? I have been pleasantly surprised that is has been adequate for use on my Sawstop 3hp saw and would like to improve it if I can.

RFGuy

Yeah, I have heard a lot of good things about the HF DC with a Wynn filter. Glad this is working well for you. Some HF owners even swap out the impeller for a larger one to get even more airflow. A few times, I have thought about converting my DC3300 like you describe. It would not be that hard to make an interface out of wood to attach a cartridge filter on top of the DC3300. I'd really like to increase the airflow though so that I can put a cyclone in front of it and I just haven't come up with a good way to re-engineer the blower in the DC3300, at least not without it costing an arm and a leg. I think the Wynn filter alone is about $200 and blowers aren't cheap unless you build them using freebie motors. I figured if I had to replace the blower and the filter that I might as well buy a new DC or just build a separate one from the DC3300.

If anyone does rebuild the DC3300 or has already done it, I would also be interested in seeing what they have come up with.

AEA

Works well with even the saw? I don't know what I am doing wrong. I've used cyclones and I even hooked up a shopvac directly to my under saw guard and far more sawdust shoots out in front of the blade than goes in the vacuum. Nothing I try seems to make a difference. I tried different adjustments on the lower guide width wise with no difference. I am hesitant to invest money and time into any system if it won't work for me. Ideas?

Dan

RFGuy

AEA wrote Works well with even the saw? I don't know what I am doing wrong. I've used cyclones and I even hooked up a shopvac directly to my under saw guard and far more sawdust shoots out in front of the blade than goes in the vacuum. Nothing I try seems to make a difference. I tried different adjustments on the lower guide width wise with no difference. I am hesitant to invest money and time into any system if it won't work for me. Ideas?

Dan

Dan,

Yeah, table saw is the worst on the Shopsmith for me for dust collection (DC). I think I have a decent setup now but it took a lot of work to sort it out. I don't know if any of these comments will help you, but here goes... First you need a good ZCI to start with. This limits the amount of sawdust that comes above the table. Next the lower saw guard has quite a few holes in it. I have seen different solutions posted in the past for this and if I can find some good ones, I will link them below. I made some thin aluminum rectangular bars that I attach with the two threaded knobs to my lower saw guard. This blocks any dust from escaping around those sliding holes where the lower guard attaches. Next, you have to decide which way to snug the guard against the blade (see link below). I believe the better method is to keep the lower saw guard cavity as large as possible to support airflow through it, whereas some forum members preferred snugging the lower guard up tight to the blade. In the future, I hope to add some sweep type material around the lower saw guard, near the table, to further improve the dust collection efficiency, which I saw in another post before here. Still, even with all of this, there will be some small amount of sawdust that escapes through the blade opening while cutting. Some day, I might get a Shark Guard™ (https://www.thesharkguard.com/shop/) for collecting sawdust above the table. I have seen previous posts that indicated positive results on using it with the Mark V. On the plus side, I can use the jointer or planer for a long time in my shop without increasing the small particulate dust in my shop which hints that I have done a good job of sealing everything in my dust collection system even though table saw operation still emits some dust.

For DC, I use a ShopVac™ vacuum with a ClearVue™ CV06 Mini cyclone. In measuring this and comparing it against my Shopsmith DC3300, I found that I had higher airflow and much less dust released into my shop with the ShopVac™ setup. Of course, I had to buy both a HEPA cartridge filter and HEPA bags for the ShopVac™ as well as use weatherstripping to seal the ShopVac™ canister before I started to get good results. Sadly ShopVac has gone out of business now. ☹️

What cyclone did you try and with what vacuum/dust collector? Keep in mind that cyclones are very restrictive, often lowering airflow by 25% or more. This is why it is a bad idea to hookup a cyclone to an underpowered dust collector like the DC3300. Bottomline is Shopsmith designed this equipment back in the 50's when there was little research on the hazards of fine particulate dust for woodworkers. For many, many years it worked as well or better than their industry peers especially since many woodworkers used only a broom and dust pan for dust collection for a long time. I reluctantly started buying and using more Festool™ equipment because when you see how well the dust collection works on some of their tools, it is night and day different to many of the more traditional woodworking tools on the market, including Shopsmith. Some of Festool's tools are supposed to capture 98% or more of the sawdust, at the tool, which is astounding. The more sawdust you can collect at the tool before it becomes airborne the better...

https://forum.shopsmith.com/viewtopic.php?p=259162#p259162

https://forum.shopsmith.com/viewtopic.php?p=261167#p261167

https://forum.shopsmith.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=6063&p=155302&hilit=guard+dust+mod#p155302

https://forum.shopsmith.com/viewtopic.php?p=261167#p261167

DLB

RFGuy wrote A few times, I have thought about converting my DC3300 like you describe. It would not be that hard to make an interface out of wood to attach a cartridge filter on top of the DC3300. I'd really like to increase the airflow though so that I can put a cyclone in front of it and I just haven't come up with a good way to re-engineer the blower in the DC3300, at least not without it costing an arm and a leg.

Shopsmith asserts that the CFM are significantly higher on the DC3300 if you use the larger filters, over 100% increase with the 42" version. I believe that to be accurate at the subjective level, but don't have any way to confirm actual CFM rates before and after. Also with the better filtration it is throwing less of the dust back into the air. I'm pretty much a novice on dust collection, have not been using it that long, but this struck me as a cost effective improvement and I'm happy with it. See: https://www.shopsmith.com/mediawiki/index.php/Micron_Filtration The bigger filtration, and possibly larger hoses, might be necessary no matter how you increased the CFM.

- David

RFGuy

DLB wrote Shopsmith asserts that the CFM are significantly higher on the DC3300 if you use the larger filters, over 100% increase with the 42" version. I believe that to be accurate at the subjective level, but don't have any way to confirm actual CFM rates before and after. Also with the better filtration it is throwing less of the dust back into the air. I'm pretty much a novice on dust collection, have not been using it that long, but this struck me as a cost effective improvement and I'm happy with it. See: https://www.shopsmith.com/mediawiki/index.php/Micron_Filtration The bigger filtration, and possibly larger hoses, might be necessary no matter how you increased the CFM.

- David

David,

I have the 42" hood on my DC3300 and it is better but unfortunately the blower is so underpowered that the hood won't stay inflated like it should. The 12" hood filters down to 7micron particle size, the 24" hood down to 5micron and the 42" hood down to 1um. This is a big improvement, but still nowhere near as good as the HEPA filters on my ShopVac™ that filters down to 0.3um. Coincidentally, it is this ~0.3um particle size that is the most dangerous for getting deep into the lungs and causing health issues. Also one tradeoff with the Shopsmith™ filter hoods is that they don't filter well until there is sufficient "cake" built up inside the hood, but this also cuts down on airflow. HEPA filters filter without requiring this significant "cake" built up and when used with a cyclone will maintain their airflow for a much longer service life compared to filter bags like on the DC3300.

When running my DC3300 with a 42" filter hood I had significant dust get back into my shop through that hood, even with cake built up (as measured by my Dylos™ air quality monitor). It wasn't until I switched to the ShopVac™ + cyclone setup that I saw significant improvement in my measured particle counts in my shop. Not saying this is "the solution" for everyone, but I do urge everyone to be mindful of how much dust is in their shops and to pay attention to their health. I have moved my DC3300 into my attic and can tolerate the <1micron dust that goes there. I will probably use it for the dust collection on a Shark Guard™ if I ever get one.

P.S. I bought an Anemometer to measure airflow for my HVAC system for balancing, but have used it a lot more comparing dust collectors, cyclones, etc. in the shop.

AEA

Thanks RF Guy, you've given me some options to try that I haven't tried.

I need something since I can't wheel it outside any more. 11 degress at 7:00 this morning.

ChrisNeilan

After taking off my original felt filter bag I saw and remembered why a canister adaptation will not be practical, regardless of air flow. The blower motor housing takes up a third or more of the space in the filter bag. You would have to make a very large adaptor to mount the canister filter on. That would be a problem with height in my shop... I think I will probably stick with my first plan, a new Laguna P or C Flux collector. They look well designed.

RFGuy

ChrisNeilan wrote
After taking off my original felt filter bag I saw and remembered why a canister adaptation will not be practical, regardless of air flow. The blower motor housing takes up a third or more of the space in the filter bag. You would have to make a very large adaptor to mount the canister filter on. That would be a problem with height in my shop... I think I will probably stick with my first plan, a new Laguna P or C Flux collector. They look well designed.

Chris,

Isn't the cartridge filter for the Harbor Freight DC wide enough to slip over the blower of the DC3300 (see pic below)? I was only thinking of a 1-2" thick interface to mate the cartridge filter to the top of the DC3300 outer housing. I assume the wider Wynn filter cartridges, like for the Harbor Freight DC, would still have plenty of room inside for the DC3300 blower, but I may be wrong on this.

I did quite a bit of DC research last year and almost bought a Laguna DC. In the end, I think it would have been still too big (in footprint) for my small shop. I like Laguna and think it is a very good DC for the money. In my research the one negative that I came across on the Laguna DC is that they are "short stack" cyclones (reduced height cyclone and large dust exit at bottom of cyclone). It is a benefit because they fit under lower ceiling height shop spaces. The downside is that a short stack cyclone is slightly less efficient and will clog the filter faster than a long stack cyclone. I wouldn't see it as a deal breaker, but just expect that you may have to clean the filters more frequently with a Laguna DC versus a ClearVue cyclone or Oneida Gorilla/Super Dust Deputy cyclone. Not trying to discourage your purchase of a Laguna, but just wanting you to be aware on the filter cleaning.

Keep in mind that there are different filters depending on which Laguna DC that you buy. For example, I think you can get 0.4micron filters on the P/Flux series whereas the C/Flux comes with 1micron filters (same as 42" hood on DC3300). When I was looking at Laguna last year, all of their DC's had only 1micron filters. I emailed them and asked about getting better filters for their DC if I purchased it, but they never responded to me.

hfmann

After watching Stumpy Nubs video on modifying single stage dust collectors for replacing filter hoods with canister filter, I decided to give it a go. Dick Wynn at Wynn Environmental sent me these pictures of a conversion he saw.

It all makes sense to me except I can't figure out the purpose of these four screws. Any ideas?

By the way - Dick doesn't know how this was constructed. He does recommend their 35B222NANO filter.

Looks to me like I'll need a piece of sheet metal about 12" x 60" to make the shroud. Any ideas where to source that? Maybe a HVAC comp;any?

hal

ShopSmith canister conversion.jpg

Inkedcanister filter Wynn environmental_LI.jpg

rpd

It looks like the four sheet metal screws are to fasten the over lapping ends of the strip together to form the ring. The outer edge of the join is just to the right of the screws.

A sheet metal fabricator or an HVAC company would be a great source, They will have a large shear to cut it cleanly to size, :)

JPG

Sheet metal shop.

Screws secure the overlaping ends of the sheet metal band?

Missed RPD's reply above prior to posting.

hfmann

Perfect. Thanks guys. I was worried about having to get exactly the right size metal piece and this gives lots of room to adjust it to final dimension. Big help and is much more doable for me now.

RFGuy

Often you can find thin sheet metal at the big box stores (Home Despot, Lowe's, Menard's, etc.). It is easy to cut with tin snips, but wear gloves and be careful of the edges. You'll get a cleaner edge using a metal bandsaw if available. Of course, you'll need to seal the edges anyway with silicone and/or some kind of trim piece inside or out. Depending on how you handle this, a slightly rough tin snipped edge may not matter. Also, you could use sheet acrylic as an alternative, but might need a frame behind it for structural support.

edma194

If you can use aluminum you can get a roll of aluminum flashing in a variety of widths like 10",12", 14", and bigger.

hfmann

Ed, that sounds like a great idea. I wonder - do you think the flashing will be rigid enough to support the wooden donut and canister?

thanks,

hal

edma194

hfmann wrote Ed, that sounds like a great idea. I wonder - do you think the flashing will be rigid enough to support the wooden donut and canister?

thanks,

hal

Depends on the gauge. You might need some vertical stiffeners inside or outside of the new cylinder. I think you can tell by the feel the stuff that is too thin to bother with.

hfmann

Thanks Ed, that makes sense to me. Thanks,

hal

DLB

It was mentioned in another thread, and seems like a good idea, that threaded rod with nuts and washers would make good structural components for this if needed. This should eliminate any concerns regarding the strength of the sheet metal.

- David

hfmann

Finally got it done. Ended up using 24 gauge sheet metal that a local HVAC shop cut for me. Wow. What a difference this new filter made. I think it's much quieter too.

Also made the DIY manometer so I'd know when it needed cleaning. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9l9e8PwgEs&feature=emb_logo Took lots of gorilla tape to get a plastic bag completely sealed over the filter to simulate a clogged filter in order to show the reading when completely clogged.

Now back to some wood turning.

hal