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New Shopsmith DC-6000 Dust Collector

algale

jsburger wrote
RFGuy wrote
JPG wrote well the 'upgrade' is official.

I wonder if it will allow rereleasing the 4" port upgrade?

$279 is tempting!
Yeah, I just saw the email. That is great news. So, I wonder if the motor is the only change for the DC-6000 or if the impeller is modified as well. In other words will upgrading the motor on the DC-3300 also yield 600CFM or will it be slightly less.
Someone please correct me if I am wrong. If the only change is a higher HP motor with the same RPM and no change to the impeller it will not produce more CFM. To get more CFM you have to either increase the motor RPM or change the impeller design.

The add does not say you get a new impeller with the DC3300 upgrade kit so did they change the motor from 1725 RPM to 3450 RPM??? It dose not say you get 600 CFM with the upgrade kit for the DC-3300. It only says you get the POWER of the DC-6000, what ever that means. :confused:

Thanks, you may have just saved me from throwing away $279!

RFGuy

jsburger wrote
RFGuy wrote
JPG wrote
well the 'upgrade' is official.

I wonder if it will allow rereleasing the 4" port upgrade?

$279 is tempting!

Yeah, I just saw the email. That is great news. So, I wonder if the motor is the only change for the DC-6000 or if the impeller is modified as well. In other words will upgrading the motor on the DC-3300 also yield 600CFM or will it be slightly less.

Someone please correct me if I am wrong. If the only change is a higher HP motor with the same RPM and no change to the impeller it will not produce more CFM. To get more CFM you have to either increase the motor RPM or change the impeller design.

The add does not say you get a new impeller with the DC3300 upgrade kit so did they change the motor from 1725 RPM to 3450 RPM??? It dose not say you get 600 CFM with the upgrade kit for the DC-3300. It only says you get the POWER of the DC-6000, what ever that means. :confused:

John,

Short answer is I don’t know, which is why I asked the question. However I do believe an increase in horsepower does yield a small increase in airflow (CFM). Refer to the link below for an example. The fan curves in their graph are all at the same motor RPM. There is a noticeable jump in CFM between the 0.5HP and 1.5HP graphs for this manufacturer’s fans. So, maybe it is possible that you get more CFM out of a DC-3300 with this new motor but it may not be as high as the 600CFM that the DC-6000 gives. I sure wish Shopsmith provided more specs and documentation to make it easier on customers to see what they are getting.

https://continentalfan.com/fan-basics-what-is-a-fan/fan-curve-example-fan-basics-2/

garys

Likely the only correct answer here needs to come directly from Shopsmith. Their engineer should be able to say if replacing the motor and motor housing is also getting a different impeller or impeller housing to increase air flow.

I suggest trying to email Shopsmith and get information from the "source", rather than from our "guesses".

claimdude

I have the DC6000 and though I don't have an air flow meter can say the flow is much higher than my DC3300. I hooked up to my spindle sander that its about 9 in from the collector and turned it on. The air flow noise coming from Rigid Spindle sander caught me off guard as the DC3300 air flow noise could not be heard ovr the noise of the collector. Look at my pictures of the inside of the DC3300 and of the DC6000 parts list. My guess is the new motor would require the new impeller due to the change in housing size and configuration.

Jack

RFGuy

garys wrote Likely the only correct answer here needs to come directly from Shopsmith. Their engineer should be able to say if replacing the motor and motor housing is also getting a different impeller or impeller housing to increase air flow.

I suggest trying to email Shopsmith and get information from the "source", rather than from our "guesses".

With a normal company, your comments would be correct, but in this case I strongly disagree. Emails are hit or miss with Shopsmith. CS is often not technical enough to answer this and it costs money to talk to an engineer now for them. Hence more speculation and debate on this forum amongst customers.

DLB

I don't get the emails but I see the specials through 'Current Specials' from the SS home page. In this case that ad seems to indicate that the 'special' on the DC-6000 or DC-3300 motor upgrade is in the form of a Free Gift Card. Does the email suggest what the dollar value of the gift cards are for these? Like everyone that has commented, I'm disappointed in the lack of information on what the content of the motor upgrade kit is. But I'm considering it anyway. Thinking I will try calling CS on Monday to see if I can at least find out what parts are in the package.

- David

jsburger

DLB wrote I don't get the emails but I see the specials through 'Current Specials' from the SS home page. In this case that ad seems to indicate that the 'special' on the DC-6000 or DC-3300 motor upgrade is in the form of a Free Gift Card. Does the email suggest what the dollar value of the gift cards are for these? Like everyone that has commented, I'm disappointed in the lack of information on what the content of the motor upgrade kit is. But I'm considering it anyway. Thinking I will try calling CS on Monday to see if I can at least find out what parts are in the package.

- David

If you buy a new DC-6000 you get a $100 gift card. If you buy the DC-3300 upgrade kit you get a $30 gift card.

dusty

DLB wrote I don't get the emails but I see the specials through 'Current Specials' from the SS home page. In this case that ad seems to indicate that the 'special' on the DC-6000 or DC-3300 motor upgrade is in the form of a Free Gift Card. Does the email suggest what the dollar value of the gift cards are for these? Like everyone that has commented, I'm disappointed in the lack of information on what the content of the motor upgrade kit is. But I'm considering it anyway. Thinking I will try calling CS on Monday to see if I can at least find out what parts are in the package.

- David

If you browse back through this thread you will find a complete list of parts and a detailed photo of the dust collector. Can't get better than that.

Compare part numbers to see what is different. :rolleyes: :)

DLB

dusty wrote If you browse back through this thread you will find a complete list of parts and a detailed photo of the dust collector. Can't get better than that.

Compare part numbers to see what is different. :rolleyes: :)

Yep, I looked at that. The PN for the DC-3300 Motor Upgrade Package, 557092, isn't on the PL for the DC-6000. It could consist of some parts of the DC-6000 or it could be completely different or a combo. The only conclusion I draw is that it is probably not a complete DC-6000 Motor and Blower Assembly or it would likely have the same PN and, IMO, be more expensive than this. Which is good with me, I don't want more expensive than this. What I think everyone here is really asking is: "Is this DC-3300 upgrade going to move substantially more air through the system?"

- David

RFGuy

DLB wrote What I think everyone here is really asking is: "Is this DC-3300 upgrade going to move substantially more air through the system?"

- David

Exactly.

DLB

jsburger wrote Someone please correct me if I am wrong. If the only change is a higher HP motor with the same RPM and no change to the impeller it will not produce more CFM. To get more CFM you have to either increase the motor RPM or change the impeller design.

The add does not say you get a new impeller with the DC3300 upgrade kit so did they change the motor from 1725 RPM to 3450 RPM??? It dose not say you get 600 CFM with the upgrade kit for the DC-3300. It only says you get the POWER of the DC-6000, what ever that means. :confused:

The DC-3300 1/2 HP motor is a 3450 RPM motor, so this is not the change. Other motor types could spin faster, I'd guess it would be somewhat noisier and less efficient at moving air. Nothing says this is the same motor as the DC-6000 but I kinda think that's a reasonable assumption until disproven. And I don't think we have definitive info on the DC-6000 motor. So the answer in my mind is that this upgrade package must include a new impeller, perhaps not the DC-6000 impeller. I would sure like that confirmed, if it includes an impeller I'm pretty sure I want one.

- David

JPG

Question is, what is meant in the blurb when it says

"the upgrade package will provide all the power of the DC-6000 motor in your existing DC-3300".

To do that I think the assembly that includes all the DC-6000 changes is necessary. So I conclude it MUST include both the motor and housing AND the 'fan' .... PN 556701. I think the 'housing' includes the fan housing. Might call MON to confirm.

BTW it DOES say 600 cfm for the DC-6000 .

DLB

JPG wrote Question is, what is meant in the blurb when it says

"the upgrade package will provide all the power of the DC-6000 motor in your existing DC-3300".

To do that I think the assembly that includes all the DC-6000 changes is necessary. So I conclude it MUST include both the motor and housing AND the 'fan' .... PN 556701. I think the 'housing' includes the fan housing. Might call MON to confirm.

BTW it DOES say 600 cfm for the DC-6000 .

Evidently I need to sign up for the email notifications. I don't find that 'all the power' statement you quoted on the web site either, it just says "a power boost" and refers to it as the "1-1/2HP Motor Upgrade Package." I plan to call Monday to confirm what I can. I'd like to be a bit more confident in everything said about the upgrade and the DC-6000, I'm still hung up on the notion that we have an 8 Amp 1-1/2 HP Motor, cuz I don't know how that is possible on 115 VAC. (https://www.shopsmith.com/ownersite/catalog/dustcollection.htm) With others I've seen that's more like 20 Amps or some other definition of HP. I won't even ask CS that one though.

- David

algale

DLB wrote
JPG wrote Question is, what is meant in the blurb when it says

"the upgrade package will provide all the power of the DC-6000 motor in your existing DC-3300".

To do that I think the assembly that includes all the DC-6000 changes is necessary. So I conclude it MUST include both the motor and housing AND the 'fan' .... PN 556701. I think the 'housing' includes the fan housing. Might call MON to confirm.

BTW it DOES say 600 cfm for the DC-6000 .
Evidently I need to sign up for the email notifications. I don't find that 'all the power' statement you quoted on the web site either, it just says "a power boost" and refers to it as the "1-1/2HP Motor Upgrade Package." I plan to call Monday to confirm what I can. I'd like to be a bit more confident in everything said about the upgrade and the DC-6000, I'm still hung up on the notion that we have an 8 Amp 1-1/2 HP Motor, cuz I don't know how that is possible on 115 VAC. (https://www.shopsmith.com/ownersite/catalog/dustcollection.htm) With others I've seen that's more like 20 Amps or some other definition of HP. I won't even ask CS that one though.

- David

Yeah, I thought that 8 Amp reference was probably a typo.

JPG

Let's hope the 600 cfm is not also a typo.

garys

There should be laws against advertising electric motors using peak HP. Peak HP is the HP that theoretically produces when enough load is supplied to stall the motor just before it burns up. That number is useless to everybody. The only number that matters to the user is the HP produced when running.

Air compressor manufacturers for years have used that Peak HP number. There were some lawsuits that determined that it is wrong, and yet it continues. I suspect that we are seeing more of that practice with the dust collectors just like we see in shop vacuums.

JPG

Like

'peak" power in amplifiers, "peak" motor power simply is not real. Look up the definifion for Horsepower. "instantaneous" is not there. Peaks are "instantaneous".

DLB

I spoke to SS CS this morning and she indicated that according to the BOM there is no impeller or fan in the "557092 DC-3300 1-1/2 HP Motor Upgrade Package." There is a motor, connector, motor housing, seals, screws etc. There was no fan or blower housing. I don't understand the overall picture here, but I'm not ready to pay for a call to SS engineering to get product description information that should already be in the on-line catalog. As far as I know there is no power issue running the existing impeller on a 1/2 HP motor, I've never heard it slow down. If the "package" came with an impeller I would have bought it to evaluate and report the rest of the story here. But I've got nothing to go on that makes me want this at this time. Perhaps when a product description is added that will change.

Note - I've never been terribly disappointed with a SS upgrade and I've bought several. I can't imagine that this actually is as it currently seems to be. I'm thinking that $280 should buy a significant performance upgrade. I presume I'm still missing some important piece of info.

- David

dusty

DLB wrote I spoke to SS CS this morning and she indicated that according to the BOM there is no impeller or fan in the "557092 DC-3300 1-1/2 HP Motor Upgrade Package." There is a motor, connector, motor housing, seals, screws etc. There was no fan or blower housing. I don't understand the overall picture here, but I'm not ready to pay for a call to SS engineering to get product description information that should already be in the on-line catalog. As far as I know there is no power issue running the existing impeller on a 1/2 HP motor, I've never heard it slow down. If the "package" came with an impeller I would have bought it to evaluate and report the rest of the story here. But I've got nothing to go on that makes me want this at this time. Perhaps when a product description is added that will change.

Note - I've never been terribly disappointed with a SS upgrade and I've bought several. I can't imagine that this actually is as it currently seems to be. I'm thinking that $280 should buy a significant performance upgrade. I presume I'm still missing some important piece of info.

- David

The $280 is likely consumed mostly by the motor. I am not in the market but a dust collector upgrade without an impeller is not enticing at all. Besides, what is to gain with more horse power other than less strain on the motor. and mine is working fine.

shopsmithpaul

To add to everyone's ponderings on this subject. I emailed Shopsmith on Friday:

Question: I am looking at purchasing the dc6000 upgrade. Will it make my old dc3300 the same as the new dc6000? I would like to know how changing to the bigger motor provides increased cfm? If rpm and the impeller stay the same the cfm will not change with a more powerful motor.

Thanks, Paul

This is the response I got on Monday:

Hi Paul,

I forwarded your question to our engineering technician. See below to the response to your question regarding the CFM.

Regards, Denise

The Impeller is different, it has more veins.

The Impeller housing is also different.

Both of them combined to increase the CFM in the upgrade.

This sounds as if the upgrade does include a different housing and impeller.

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