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New Shopsmith DC-6000 Dust Collector

dusty

shopsmithpaul wrote To add to everyone's ponderings on this subject. I emailed Shopsmith on Friday:

Question: I am looking at purchasing the dc6000 upgrade. Will it make my old dc3300 the same as the new dc6000? I would like to know how changing to the bigger motor provides increased cfm? If rpm and the impeller stay the same the cfm will not change with a more powerful motor.

Thanks, Paul

This is the response I got on Monday:

Hi Paul,

I forwarded your question to our engineering technician. See below to the response to your question regarding the CFM.

Regards, Denise

The Impeller is different, it has more veins.

The Impeller housing is also different.

Both of them combined to increase the CFM in the upgrade.

This sounds as if the upgrade does include a different housing and impeller.

I don't see it that way.

Is the answer referring to the upgrade kit or to the new DC6600.

algale

I agree with Dusty 100%!

Read carefully the response you got. Shopsmith engineering didn't actually answer the first question you asked, which was whether the upgrade made the DC3300 the same as the new DC6000.

Instead they went on to address the statement you made that if rpm and impeller remain the same, cfm will not change with a more powerful motor. Shopsmith seems to agree that merely changing the motor wouldn't increase cfm. Instead, they attribute the increase in cfm to the combination of a new impeller design and new impeller housing design.

But (and here's where Shopsmith is being slimey in my opinion), the response from Shopsmith engineering is vague and ambiguous as to whether the new impeller and impeller housing is part of the upgrade kit or only part of the new DC6000. It just says "The Impeller is different" and "The Impeller house is also different." "The" is supposed to be a definite article in English but here you cannot tell whether "the" refers to what's in the upgrade kit or what's in the DC6000, or both.

We know the DC6000 has it. We also know from a prior communication with customer service, those parts (impeller/impeller housing) are NOT in the bill of material for the upgrade kit --just a motor, motor housing, hardware and seals. And the ad from Shopsmith for the upgrade kit doesn't mention the impeller/impeller housing either (it only mentions the motor and motor housing). It also mentions more power but not more cfm. Shopsmith and their engineers are not stupid. If you were getting a new impeller, impeller housing and increase cfm from the upgrade kit, they would yell it from the highest mountains.

This is the only instance I can remember where I think Shopsmith is providing intentionally misleading information. Shame on Shopsmith's engineering department.

RFGuy

Shopsmith has been vague on their product descriptions for years, especially on their weekly specials that they advertise. Many, many times I have considered some accessories or optional parts no longer in production that I don’t own yet but have skipped because they only give a brief, vague title. I know CS isn’t technical enough to answer so I don’t bother calling. Even the DC-6000 has limited specifications listed for it which gives me pause. Most other North American based woodworking tool manufacturers give detailed specs and full product descriptions for their products and replacement parts. JMO

DLB

I hope that the answer Paul go is the correct answer and the answer I got was incorrect. The problem, perhaps, is that Paul asked: "I am looking at purchasing the dc6000 upgrade. Will it make my old dc3300 the same as the new dc6000?" The upgrade is not called a DC-6000 upgrade, it is 557092 DC-3300 1-1/2 HP Motor Upgrade Package. So did they (specifically Denise) understand what he was asking? The answer specifically states it was to the CFM question, but just as Dusty asked, is that the DC-3300 upgrade, DC-6000, or both?

All of this due to there being neither picture nor product description to be found...

If I had received the answer Paul received I would have bought it and then looked at the content when it arrived. I don't believe that SS would do what it sounds like they are doing. I still think we have bad info, stemming from the absence of a description. Would they really provide a 300% increase in power with no way to consume that power? That would indeed by slimey. That's inconsistent with my experience, incorrect info from CS is not.

- David

dusty

DLB wrote
I spoke to SS CS this morning and she indicated that according to the BOM there is no impeller or fan in the "557092 DC-3300 1-1/2 HP Motor Upgrade Package." There is a motor, connector, motor housing, seals, screws etc. There was no fan or blower housing. I don't understand the overall picture here, but I'm not ready to pay for a call to SS engineering to get product description information that should already be in the on-line catalog. As far as I know there is no power issue running the existing impeller on a 1/2 HP motor, I've never heard it slow down. If the "package" came with an impeller I would have bought it to evaluate and report the rest of the story here. But I've got nothing to go on that makes me want this at this time. Perhaps when a product description is added that will change.

Note - I've never been terribly disappointed with a SS upgrade and I've bought several. I can't imagine that this actually is as it currently seems to be. I'm thinking that $280 should buy a significant performance upgrade. I presume I'm still missing some important piece of info.

David

I would not disagree BUT if you check the price for a DC3300 motor only the Shopsmith price is $321.64 (515590). Historically, Shopsmith has priced their motors on the high side and they can because most of them are unique to Shopsmith. I might buy the upgrade kit just to get a replacement motor.

DC-3300 Upgrade Package.PNG

JPG

Unfortunately a contradiction. Wonder if the engineer tech was referring the to dc6000 redesign rather than the dc3300 to dc6000 "upgrade".

I would like to believe the marketing and CS info are incomplete/inaccurate.

DLB

dusty wrote I would not disagree BUT if you check the price for a DC3000 motor only the Shopsmith price is $321.64 (515590). Historically, Shopsmith has priced their motors on the high side and they can because most of them are unique to Shopsmith. I might buy the upgrade kit just to get a replacement motor.DC-3300 Upgrade Package.PNG

Well, if you buy one take pics and let us know for sure what else is included. ;) I recently removed a DC-3300 motor and did not see anything that jumped out at me as being unique to SS except for the connector on the short lead, and that is easily put on another motor. It has a key-way style shaft with a threaded hole in the end. I did not end up taking the motor apart, it had maybe 1-1/2 cups of sawdust in it and worked fine after compressed air cleaning. I assume that it had sawdust in the start contacts, a common problem in Mark 5/V. I would expect to be able to find a replacement if I looked, and would just have to install the special harness with connector.

- David

dusty

DLB wrote
dusty wrote I would not disagree BUT if you check the price for a DC3000 motor only the Shopsmith price is $321.64 (515590). Historically, Shopsmith has priced their motors on the high side and they can because most of them are unique to Shopsmith. I might buy the upgrade kit just to get a replacement motor.DC-3300 Upgrade Package.PNG
Well, if you buy one take pics and let us know for sure what else is included. ;) I recently removed a DC-3300 motor and did not see anything that jumped out at me as being unique to SS except for the connector on the short lead, and that is easily put on another motor. It has a key-way style shaft with a threaded hole in the end. I did not end up taking the motor apart, it had maybe 1-1/2 cups of sawdust in it and worked fine after compressed air cleaning. I assume that it had sawdust in the start contacts, a common problem in Mark 5/V. I would expect to be able to find a replacement if I looked, and would just have to install the special harness with connector.

- David

It might not appear to be unique but if you can buy a new one only from Shopsmith...I consider it unique.

Since you have a motor, could you tell me the part number? Not 515690 but rather a manufacturers part number.

shopsmithpaul

I guess my questions were not clear enough. I sent an email response this morning for more clarification. I will post when I hear something back.

JPG

Thank You for pursuing this for 'us'.

The answer is really a deciding factor for me.

It has to be a true upgrade from DC3300 to DC6000 for me to jump on it!

JPG

algale wrote '. . .

Shame on Shopsmith's engineering department.

I am more inclined to blame marketing or management.

DLB

dusty wrote It might not appear to be unique but if you can buy a new one only from Shopsmith...I consider it unique.

Since you have a motor, could you tell me the part number? Not 515690 but rather a manufacturers part number.

Yes, Emerson Model C55EJL-2808-A. I don't see any currently listed, but a used one sold recently on ebay for $125. It included a few other DC-3300 bits, including a switch and power cord.

- David

shopsmithpaul

That is the way I am looking at it. I would like it to be a DC-6000 after upgrading. Unfortunately the lack of clarity has pushed my purchase past the special offer they had.

JPG

shopsmithpaul wrote That is the way I am looking at it. I would like it to be a DC-6000 after upgrading. Unfortunately the lack of clarity has pushed my purchase past the special offer they had.

?????

algale

shopsmithpaul wrote I guess my questions were not clear enough. I sent an email response this morning for more clarification. I will post when I hear something back.

Your question was plenty clear. The original answer was not clear and I maintain deliberately so.

beeg

SS sells the DC6000. WHY wood they make an upgrade to the DC330 to equal the DC6000?

algale

beeg wrote SS sells the DC6000. WHY wood they make an upgrade to the DC330 to equal the DC6000?

They already sell an upgrade to make the Mark V 500 a 510 and a 510 a 520 and a 520 a Mark 7. So why not?

DLB

algale wrote
beeg wrote SS sells the DC6000. WHY wood they make an upgrade to the DC330 to equal the DC6000?
They already sell an upgrade to make the Mark V 500 a 510 and a 510 a 520 and a 520 a Mark 7. So why not?

I think they would make an upgrade to the DC-3300 because it would sell. I see several people in this thread expressing strong interest in an upgrade. Speaking only for myself, I have no interest in a new DC-6000 at the current price and strong interest in an upgrade in the $300 range. It is not about money, but about how I view the DC-6000 against the competition (unfavorably). So it is not 'why would they sell me an upgrade for $300 when they can sell me a new unit for $700.' Because they can't. The market potential for DC-3300 upgrades might be 20X the market potential for DC-6000's, at least that would be my guess. They have marketing guys with their own guesses.

As Al says, it is the same thing as a Mark. There is big money in upgrades, and this is kind of SS's niche. I bought the two upgrades to get from 520 to M7, but I doubt I would have ever sprung for a new M7. Because it is $2K better and it ain't $4K better, as seen by this buyer. Same principle here.

- David

RFGuy

DLB wrote I think they would make an upgrade to the DC-3300 because it would sell. I see several people in this thread expressing strong interest in an upgrade. Speaking only for myself, I have no interest in a new DC-6000 at the current price and strong interest in an upgrade in the $300 range. It is not about money, but about how I view the DC-6000 against the competition (unfavorably). So it is not 'why would they sell me an upgrade for $300 when they can sell me a new unit for $700.' Because they can't. The market potential for DC-3300 upgrades might be 20X the market potential for DC-6000's, at least that would be my guess. They have marketing guys with their own guesses.

As Al says, it is the same thing as a Mark. There is big money in upgrades, and this is kind of SS's niche. I bought the two upgrades to get from 520 to M7, but I doubt I would have ever sprung for a new M7. Because it is $2K better and it ain't $4K better, as seen by this buyer. Same principle here.

- David

Kind of hard to justify a DC-6000 for $739 when you can get a Harbor Freight DC for around $160 (with coupons) that has better performance. However to Bob's point I can see how they don't want to cannibalize potential customers for it by offering a lower cost upgrade path for customers with a DC-3300 upgrade. That is why I assumed the DC-3300 upgrade likely has less than 600CFM airflow, but that is just an assumption since Shopsmith doesn't give us full specs and details.

JPG

I have come to the conclusion that some form of idiocy has taken over the management of RLF.... TO offer a "motor upgrade" that includes a more powerful motor but does not appreciably improve performance is ludicriuos at best and dishonest(misleading) at worst.

I have to agree with Al.

All previous "upgrades" have created equality with the thing upgraded to. This deceitful offering is a sham. Somebody new have this brain fart or has dementia set in at Dayton?

I am VERY disappointed by this!

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