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Noisy Jointer

garyshell

I have had an old all grey SS jointer that is mounted on a stand with a separate motor, I used it for a while and then it sat in my garage for about 8 to 10 years. Recently, I dug it out and refurbished it. I completely disassembled it, every nut and bolt, I cleaned up a lot of surface rust and put in brand new blades and bearings. Tonight I remounted it to the stand making sure that the motor pulley and cutter shaft pully were parallel. Before I put the belt on I made sure that the cutter head spun freely. I attached the belt and adjusted the tension.

When I fired it up it was very noisy. I pulled the belt and rechecked the cutter head it all seemed ok. But I decided to realign the cutter head so the shaft was perpendicular to the fence. I loosened the two bearing pillow block screws. I used a small machinist square on the Infeed table, just touching one of the blades to align it. I then retightened the screws,

I fired it back up and it is still seems noisy. So now to my question. Since I don't really remember what it originally sounded like, and I stupidly didn't fire it up before I started the refurb, I'd like to ask someone in the group make a recording of their jointer running. Preferably a stand mounted one. Maybe it is supposed to be noisy, but it doesn't "seem right".

Thanks in advance.

RCZ

Hello Gary

Doug Reid has at least one video on his YT channel in which he uses his SS jointer. That might help you with your question, although he might have the sound of the machinery muted somewhat?

I am scheduled to go pick up a jointer and a 510 early this week. If you haven't found a video to help you with your question, I will make one for you.

Rob

chapmanruss

garyshell,

Sorry I don't have a recording for you of a running Jointer to share besides I would have to run my 4E Jointer on my Model 10ER to have one run by a belt so not the same as your setup. There are some possibilities as to why it is running "noisy". Is anything rubbing like the belt or blades, as it turns? The Jointer itself has only the one moving assembly, the cutter head. Noise from it would most likely be the bearings which you said you replaced. The only other noise it could make would be the blades "hitting" the table as it rotates. Other possible causes for noise could be the motor and its bearings or the belt not being the correct tension. Noise from the bearings would more likely be a squeal and a different noise from the belt or something rubbing.

Without the belt attached is the motor noisy when running? You said the Cutter Head seems okay so I take it that as there isn't anywhere the blades are hitting the table or noisy when rotated by hand. That would leave the belt. Is it tensioned properly so it is not "flapping" as it rotates? It could be the belt has sat so long it developed a "memory" on the pulleys and the noise is caused by it being less flexible straightening the part that has curved around the pulley sitting for so long and back as the belt rotates around. I hope that makes sense as I have tried to explain it. To say it simpler if the belt is no longer flexible maybe a new belt is the answer.

bainin

Mine on a Powerpro makes a nice consistent hum...kind of reminds me a low pitched RC airplane.

garyshell

chapmanruss wrote garyshell,

Without the belt attached is the motor noisy when running? You said the Cutter Head seems okay so I take it that as there isn't anywhere the blades are hitting the table or noisy when rotated by hand. That would leave the belt. Is it tensioned properly so it is not "flapping" as it rotates? It could be the belt has sat so long it developed a "memory" on the pulleys and the noise is caused by it being less flexible straightening the part that has curved around the pulley sitting for so long and back as the belt rotates around. I hope that makes sense as I have tried to explain it. To say it simpler if the belt is no longer flexible maybe a new belt is the answer.

The motor is quiet and the cutter head turns without any rubbing. But I think you are spot on with the belt. It most assuredly has developed a memory and lost its flexibility. So I am betting that is the issue. I have a link belt on my Jet table saw and it has retained it flexibility for a long time. I am going to see if I can get one of them that is the proper width for the SS pulleys.

Thanks for the diagnosis.

garyshell

Update...

I bought two link belts one for the jointer and one for the bandsaw. As I was putting the new belt on the jointer, I thought I'd give the motor a listen by itself. Turns out IT was a source of some of the vibration, Truth be told, I suspect it is providing much of it. So I tore the motor out of the stand and put it on my bench and fired it up. Yep lots of vibration. I took the large pulley off of it and fired it up again and it is much smoother. The pulley does not appear to be out of round or anything but the flange that holds the retaining screw to hold the pulley on the shaft is a bit of a bulge that would likely make it be out of balance.

You can see the bulge on the right in the attached photo. The motor runs at 3450 rpm, so I suspect that much offset mass is the source of the vibration.

Any thoughts? Should I consider buying a new pulley without that bulge, i.e. one with the same mass all the way around?

chapmanruss

I guess there is two choices here, replace the pulley with a balanced one or get the current pulley balanced. To avoid this problem pulleys usually have an opposite "bulge" to keep them balanced when there is extra material for the set screw like the one shown in the picture below.

5 inch Pulley.jpg

garyshell

chapmanruss wrote I guess there is two choices here, replace the pulley with a balanced one or get the current pulley balanced. To avoid this problem pulleys usually have an opposite "bulge" to keep them balanced when there is extra material for the set screw like the one shown in the picture below.

_

5 inch Pulley.jpg

Thanks, chapmanruss. I was looking at replacements and noticed ones with the opposite bulge and assumed it was for this very reason. You validated my thinking.

edma194

Was the pulley mounted with a key, set screw, or both? And does the motor shaft have a flat or slot for a key? The bulge in the photo seems to be in an odd place, perhaps there to balance mounting with just a set screw and no key.

garyshell

edma194 wrote Was the pulley mounted with a key, set screw, or both? And does the motor shaft have a flat or slot for a key? The bulge in the photo seems to be in an odd place, perhaps there to balance mounting with just a set screw and no key.

The shaft has no keyway or a flat so it is mounted only via a set screw. The pulley is made to accommodate a key, if the shaft had one.

As big as the bulge is, I don't see how it ever could be balanced. I am going to seek out a new pulley with a corresponding bulge 180 degrees from the first one or ideally one with no bulge at all, i.e. with a continuous structure all the way around the shaft to accommodate a set screw.

garyshell

Can anyone tell me the recommended RPM of a motor for use when mounting the jointer in a standalone configuration? My stand and motor was cobbled together by the previous owner and I am now questioning if it was properly done. This six inch pulley is mounted on the motor shaft and a smaller pulley on the cutter head shaft. (I am not at home at the moment but I believe that pulley is about 3 inches in diameter.)

I guess the real question is what is the correct RPM speed for the cutter head? I can do the math to see if my configuration is within spec.

edma194

The jointer is rated for operating speed of 3900-6200 RPM: https://www.shopsmith.com/ownersite/catalog/jointer.htm

This pulley guide shows 3900 RPM assuming a 1725 RPM motor in the 1/2 to 3/4 HP range: https://www.shopsmith.com/ownersite/productmanuals/pulleyguards.pdf

The type of wood, depth of cut etc. will all affect the operation speed but assuming less than 1 HP you should probably stick to the lower speed and save the torque.

garyshell

edma194 wrote The jointer is rated for operating speed of 3900-6200 RPM: https://www.shopsmith.com/ownersite/catalog/jointer.htm

This pulley guide shows 3900 RPM assuming a 1725 RPM motor in the 1/2 to 3/4 HP range: https://www.shopsmith.com/ownersite/productmanuals/pulleyguards.pdf

The type of wood, depth of cut etc. will all affect the operation speed but assuming less than 1 HP you should probably stick to the lower speed and save the torque.

Oh my, Then I was right to question the original owners build. With how it is configured, 6" pulley on a 3450 motor and a 3"pulley on the cutter head, this sucker is running the cutter head at 6900 RPM. YIKES! That is 700 RPM over spec. When I look for a new, better balanced, pulley I just might reduce its diameter a bit to get it closer to spec.

Thanks again.

DLB

garyshell wrote Can anyone tell me the recommended RPM of a motor for use when mounting the jointer in a standalone configuration? My stand and motor was cobbled together by the previous owner and I am now questioning if it was properly done. This six inch pulley is mounted on the motor shaft and a smaller pulley on the cutter head shaft. (I am not at home at the moment but I believe that pulley is about 3 inches in diameter.)

I guess the real question is what is the correct RPM speed for the cutter head? I can do the math to see if my configuration is within spec.

While rated for the range Ed stated, typical for me is around 5500 RPM and I'd call that nominal (-ish). That's based on 3450 RPM for a Mark upper spindle, with a 1.6 multiplier for the lower spindle gives 5520. I confirmed this is consistent with the PowerPro "Chart" function that recommends 3450 (X 1.6) RPM for less than 2" width and 3500 (X 1.6) RPM for greater than 2" width. So 5520 - 5600 RPM is nominal per Shopsmith, I reckon.

I tried a low speed on the Power Station once, never again. This was ~ 3850 RPM, max for the Power Station. It was seriously impaired, even with a very slow feed rate. The manual says it works, but that was not my impression.

- David

garyshell

Follow up:

So the pulley on the cutter head shaft is 3.5 inches not 3. So my resulting speed at the cutter head is 5914 RPM. Well within spec. Below is a photo of that pulley and it, unlike the motor pulley, has a bulge 180 degrees opposite the one for the set screw. I'm going to now seek out a 6 inch pulley for the motor with a similar bulge arrangement on both sides of the shaft centerline.

garyshell

Another follow up. I ordered a new pulley from Amazon. It arrived and I am impressed. It was OBVIOUSLY balanced at the factory and the flange for the set screw has the same profile all the way around the shaft. I'll attach photos. But the best part is i mounted it to the motor and fired it up on my bench. And there is no vibration. Hurrah!

I'll post again after it's all back together.

garyshell

Everything is buttoned back up. I put the link belt on and none of that wicked vibration remains. But I do have an issue I need to sort out. With the motor running, the link belt expands a bit to the point that it rubs on the two feet of the eccentric tube mounting base.

The jointer is mounted as shown in this photo. But I wonder if I turned the base 180 degrees then the feet would not be in the way when the belt expands. I'm going to give that a go tomorrow night.

Majones1

I think the 3.5” pulley on your jointer is too big. If you look at the pulley manual for the Power Stand, it shows that it is expected that a 2” pulley will be used on the jointer. While you might be able to use a larger pulley maybe a 3” or 2.5” pulley would work.

edma194

Majones1 wrote I think the 3.5” pulley on your jointer is too big. If you look at the pulley manual for the Power Stand, it shows that it is expected that a 2” pulley will be used on the jointer. While you might be able to use a larger pulley maybe a 3” or 2.5” pulley would work.

Those pulley sizes were based on a 1725 RPM motor. He has a 3450 RPM motor. With a 3.5" pulley on the router and a 6" pulley on the motor he'll get a cutter head speed approx. 5900 RPM. That assumes those are the actual pitch diameters of the pulleys, but it should be close to that even if not.

In a post above, DLB recommends a slightly slower speed for a smaller motor so perhaps the jointer pulley needs to be a little larger to achieve that, but we still don't know the rated HP for that motor.

Majones1

edma194 wrote
Majones1 wrote I think the 3.5” pulley on your jointer is too big. If you look at the pulley manual for the Power Stand, it shows that it is expected that a 2” pulley will be used on the jointer. While you might be able to use a larger pulley maybe a 3” or 2.5” pulley would work.
Those pulley sizes were based on a 1725 RPM motor. He has a 3450 RPM motor. With a 3.5" pulley on the router and a 6" pulley on the motor he'll get a cutter head speed approx. 5900 RPM. That assumes those are the actual pitch diameters of the pulleys, but it should be close to that even if not.

In a post above, DLB recommends a slightly slower speed for a smaller motor so perhaps the jointer pulley needs to be a little larger to achieve that, but we still don't know the rated HP for that motor.

I realize now that I failed to provide a response that included key thoughts and left some details as assumptions. :o I did understand the motor speed difference, but was trying to make the point that the dimension of the jointer pulley may be outside the physical design expectation of the stand and SPT mount. If there is a design limitation on the diameter of this pulley, and a speed limitation on the jointer, then the motor pulley would also need to be changed to maintain the desired speed.

I do not know if the mount can be turned around, as the OP was asking, but I believe it is likely to shift the balance and not provide the leverage needed to resist the tension of the belt.