Schedule a Meeting · Talk to a real woodworker: +1 937-890-5197 · 8:00AM – 4:30PM ET

Start trips breaker

JACOBEIS

I have gotten it to work for about 30 seconds by taking off the belt opening the motor Sheaves with my hand putting a small piece of wood to keep it separated closing the upper Sheaves putting the belt back on the motor took out the wood and turned it on.

then it ran for about 30 seconds before the motor Sheaves began to close and the circuit trips

As some one asked I don not have it on a GFCI it wired straight thru to my Electrical Panel with a 20 Amp Breaker I even bought a new breaker as I heard if a breaker trips too often you have to change it.

And as for my Electrical Cord it in good condition, and with no belt on my motor it runs for ever and is very quiet.

I have been using 3 in 1 oil to oil all shafts and any hole and the bearings.

what would changing the Motor bearings have to do with the Motor Sheaves separating. When the Motor Sheaves close the belt riding over the top of the Sheaves but JUST A TOUCH

What is the first thing I should change the Belt, or the Motor Bearings or the bearings on the upper Poly V belt, any other suggestion?

I would like to thank all of you for your suggestions.

dusty

I wish I had something intelligent to offer. You have done most all of what I might do with no success.

If I had to solve this, my next step would be "to a motor shop" (someone who can measure field current under load).

Hobbyman2

JMO . in my experience with belts , when they go bad they slip , even smell burnt . when the sheaves are open that should be slow speed . when they are closed that should be high speed , you say your sheave closes on its own ? or am I not understanding the situation ?? they should be open when you start the machine "dial set on slow" . the high speeds are for routing and shaping and not so much for sawing . pretty sure the manual says start the machine on slow , when you are done cutting adjust the speed control to slow before you shut it off . jmo

Hobbyman2

DLB

JACOBEIS wrote I have gotten it to work for about 30 seconds by taking off the belt opening the motor Sheaves with my hand putting a small piece of wood to keep it separated closing the upper Sheaves putting the belt back on the motor took out the wood and turned it on.

then it ran for about 30 seconds before the motor Sheaves began to close and the circuit trips

Something here is abnormal. The sheaves should have closed to contact the belt as soon as you took out the wood block. Then they should not have moved again except in response to a speed change. If it is not closing to contact the belt as soon as you remove the wood block that is most likely excessive friction between motor shaft and floating sheave. If lubrication didn't solve it, I would remove the sheaves and clean/polish the motor shaft and clean bore inside floating sheave. Inspect everything. Reassemble and lubricate shaft. If it is closing to contact the belt then moving more 30 seconds later, is the control sheave on the idler shaft moving, either in response to a speed change or on its own?

As some one asked I don not have it on a GFCI it wired straight thru to my Electrical Panel with a 20 Amp Breaker I even bought a new breaker as I heard if a breaker trips too often you have to change it.

And as for my Electrical Cord it in good condition, and with no belt on my motor it runs for ever and is very quiet.

I have been using 3 in 1 oil to oil all shafts and any hole and the bearings.

what would changing the Motor bearings have to do with the Motor Sheaves separating. When the Motor Sheaves close the belt riding over the top of the Sheaves but JUST A TOUCH

Belt position you are reporting is in relation to Idler or Motor sheaves, just to be clear?

What is the first thing I should change the Belt, or the Motor Bearings or the bearings on the upper Poly V belt, any other suggestion?

With the motor turned off but belts on, can you turn the headstock by hand using only the knurled knob on the quill spindle? Is it quiet when you do so? This is an attempt to rule mechanical resistance in or out as a contributor or cause.

I would like to thank all of you for your suggestions.

What age and version is your machine, and how long have you had it? Mostly I'm just wondering 3/4 HP or 1-1/8 HP motor, but others may be wondering for other reasons and this is just good to know for background.

Unfortunately, a problem like this can be caused by excessive mechanical resistance, excessive electrical resistance, the motor itself, or outside factors. Mechanical resistance seems to me to be the easiest to eliminate or confirm, though its still subjective.

- David

dusty

Hobbyman2 wrote JMO . in my experience with belts , when they go bad they slip , even smell burnt . when the sheaves are open that should be slow speed . when they are closed that should be high speed , you say your sheave closes on its own ? or am I not understanding the situation ?? they should be open when you start the machine "dial set on slow" . the high speeds are for routing and shaping and not so much for sawing . pretty sure the manual says start the machine on slow , when you are done cutting adjust the speed control to slow before you shut it off . jmo

To avoid confusion you must be specific!!! Which sheaves?

john_001

JACOBEIS wrote I have gotten it to work for about 30 seconds by taking off the belt opening the motor Sheaves with my hand putting a small piece of wood to keep it separated closing the upper Sheaves putting the belt back on the motor took out the wood and turned it on.

then it ran for about 30 seconds before the motor Sheaves began to close and the circuit trips

Why are the motor sheaves closing if the speed control is set on slow? On slow, the upper sheaves should be pretty much fully closed with the belt riding at the rims and the motor sheaves open to the point where the belt rides at the bottom of the sheaves. Are you saying that with the speed set on slow and the upper sheaves closed, the motor sheaves start closing up on the belt by themselves? When the breaker trips, how tight is the belt? You should be able to flex the belt about 1/4" with a finger. If the upper and motor sheaves are both closed, the belt would be rock hard and too tight.

dusty

I could probably read the thread and find the answer but this is the easy way.

With the belt installed on the sheaves and the power plug removed -- have you tried turning the speed control while simultaneously spinning the saw blade (or preferably a sanding disk)? If you can do this and the belt changes position in the sheaves, move the belt to about half way (mid-range on the speed dial). Now plug it in and turn it on. Does it run?

dusty

JACOBETS

A couple questions (as I again reread this thread):

1. When you remove the belt, where do you have the speed control set?

2. When you have the belt on and the speed control set to "slow", how wide apart are the lower (floating and fan) sheaves?

3. You say that with the motor sheaves pulled apart manually it will run until the motor sheaves close. How do you run it while holding the sheaves apart? The spring should expand immediately (closing the motor sheaves on the belt) when the manual force that is holding it open is relaxed.

As a word of caution, when pulling the motor sheaves apart do not let them close abruptly. Allow them to close "SLOWLY". If they close under full force of the spring there is a possibility of damage.

JPG

The floating sheave travel should be about equal to the belt width. Dusty's drawing shows 9/16" travel.

I posted that not realizing the 5th page existed. Still true!

As has been pointed out, the floating sheave should close immediately when released.

IF it is taking 30 sec to close then the floating sheave is not free, but dragging(binding).

IF when the floating sheave closes the breaker trips, that indicates the motor cannot deliver sufficient mechanical power to the drive train(idler shaft etc. and quill etc.).

As has been requested, what motor do you have(3/4 or 1 1/8)?

DLB

JPG wrote The floating sheave travel should be about equal to the belt width. Dusty's drawing shows 9/16" travel.

I posted that not realizing the 5th page existed. Still true!

I'm still debating that point, just not actively. ;) I'd say we are not talking about the same thing, but Dusty's drawing seems unambiguous and my 'fast' distance matched his.

- David

dusty

DLB wrote
JPG wrote
The floating sheave travel should be about equal to the belt width. Dusty's drawing shows 9/16" travel.

I posted that not realizing the 5th page existed. Still true!

I'm still debating that point, just not actively. 😉 I'd say we are not talking about the same thing, but Dusty's drawing seems unambiguous and my 'fast' distance matched his.

David

How far the floating sheave travels is a function of nothing more than the face of the sheaves . Assuming the width of the belt remains constant (1/2") throughout the transition from high speed to low speed, the travel distance is determined solely by the slope in the face of the sheave. This sketch (based on my measurements of the sheave) shows that the absolute maximum travel is 43/64". In the real world, the belt does not travel this deep into the sheaves. To do so would cause the belt to be seized by the sheaves.

Unfortunately, all this discussion about the sheaves does little (if anything) to solve the kicking breaker issue. We need more feedback (hopefully some pictures) of what is happening in the shops of the two members with the problem.

Floasting Sheave Travel from High Speed to Low Speed.jpg

JPG

Dusty: Did you ignore the slope of the opposing sheave?

I think my earlier statement re belt width sheave travel is off by a factor of two.

43/64 x 2(sheaves) = 86/64 = 1.34"

9/16 x 2 = 1.125

DLB

dusty wrote ...Unfortunately, all this discussion about the sheaves does little (if anything) to solve the kicking breaker issue...

Agreed, and exactly why I said 'not actively.' I didn't think this thread should be cluttered up with that discussion, but thought the information we provide should be as accurate as possible. So I provided a measurement from a Mark V. I think this new drawing is roughly accurate as far as it goes, but it only shows one sheave and the belt. Doesn't the sheave that moves, whether it is control or floating, move exactly twice as far (axially) as the belt? This is the third drawing you've posted in this thread, seems like two of them for the sole purpose of disagreeing with what I said I measured on an actual Mark V.

I made more measurements on my machine based on your last drawing. In 'fast' the inside measurement at the outside edge of the sheaves is roughly 1/2", the width of the belt as you'd expect. At 'slow' the inside measurement is over 1-1/2". The floating sheave moved over 1". The belt did not. Consistent with my previous measurement where I was measuring the compressed length of the spring, using different measurement points. There remains over 2X difference in how far your drawings depict the floating sheave moving and how far I measure it moving. I think we are stuck until someone other than me measures a machine. I agree to disagree.

- David

dusty

You guys are both correct. I erred in the way I was thanking about this.

These two sketches (I believe) are more correct showing that the sheaves move about 1 1/8" during the transition from high to low speed.

Motor is not shown and Motor Shaft is abbreviated in this image.

Templates of Floating and Fan Sheaves at High and Low Speed.jpg

JPG

Lest any misinterpret the last two illustrations, I have to mention that the position of the movable sheaves coincides with the position of the fixed sheave on the opposing pulley at the extreme positions(fast/slow).

i.e the floating sheave aligns with the idler sheave at slow speed, and the fan sheave aligns with the control sheave at fast speed.

JACOBEIS

I apologize for not responding to the people who made suggestions about my problem

I have been away

I find when I move the upper Sheaves with the dial while turning the sanding disk the belt gets stuck when the Upper Sheaves squeeze together.

its like it wont ride up with the Sheaves.

I just ordered a new Kevlar Belt on Ebay awaiting delivery

will post if its the belt.

could it be the Sheaves? I have taken them off and cleaned them

Again thank you all

DLB

JACOBEIS wrote I apologize for not responding to the people who made suggestions about my problem

I have been away

I find when I move the upper Sheaves with the dial while turning the sanding disk the belt gets stuck when the Upper Sheaves squeeze together.

its like it wont ride up with the Sheaves.

I just ordered a new Kevlar Belt on Ebay awaiting delivery

will post if its the belt.

could it be the Sheaves? I have taken them off and cleaned them

Again thank you all

If you look at Dusty's detailed drawings of the sheaves both pairs have a portion near the shaft that does not form a "V." It is theoretically possible for the belt to get into that portion and it tends to get pinched. I've only experienced this once, on the Idler. It was 100% my fault, I was not using an OEM belt and my high speed stop was probably out of adjustment. It would only occur at or near the fastest speed setting.

There is a lot of information about motor belts in the forum. Summary: the mechanical speed control system is designed for one size belt and is sensitive to belt size, both length and width are critical. There is one known remaining source for correctly sized OEM belts, the OEM. Most belts being sold for SS will work to some extent, maybe nothing worse than a small error between calculated and actual speed. My first choice is the Shopsmith brand belt. My second choice would be the metric belt that Jacob Anderson used to sell, though he is now retired it is a standard belt. IIRC it reduces the range of speeds a bit, but is more stout. I can't comment about the belt you bought but size is more important than material. It would be a good idea to perform high speed adjustments after you install it.

- David

JACOBEIS

thanks

awaiting belt

JPG

I be suspicious the floating sheave is not sufficiently lubricated. It opening the motor pulley is where slack comes from to allow the idler pulley to move the belt 'out'.

« Previous Page Next Page »