Just bought my first SS... now I have questions

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RCTaylor
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Just bought my first SS... now I have questions

Post by RCTaylor »

So today I bought my first Shopsmith. I did a little research over the last week and now I have a few questions before I dig to far into upgrading/restoring. I know it’s a 1985 model (two years older than I am,) by the serial number chart on the mothership’s website. What I can’t seem to figure out is if it’s a 510 or just a 500. I’d like to update the table/fence to the 520 and I’m still on the fence about a double tilt/Mark 7 upgrade. Also, it came with a 6 inch jointer... I know it’s not an real SS jointer, but I’d like to know where it did come from in order to get replacement knives. Any help and just general pointers or tips would be deeply appreciated! Thanks in advance!

I can’t get the photos to upload from my iPhone soooo... the serial number on my head unit is 204711.
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DLB
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Re: Just bought my first SS... now I have questions

Post by DLB »

I don't know if this is accurate, but someone here will. On the Mothership SN chart their are two sets of SNs for the years from 1985, when the 510 was introduced, until they stopped using SNs in 1988. I've always assumed that the second set of SNs for each of those years was for the 510s. If accurate, that would make yours originally a 500. Many Marks have been modified and upgraded, sometimes repeatedly, so how it started life is not definitive.

Best way to be sure is inspection of the main table. 510 and on have a 17-1/2 X 22" main table. The 500 is considerably smaller. Next is the fence mounting system, 505/510 has steel tubular rails at the front and rear of the table for mounting the fence. 520 has an aluminum extrusion with a complex cross sectional shape. There are also some aftermarket variations, more similar to the 520.

Jointer - Almost certainly came from one of several brands of Taiwanese Shopsmith clones. IIWM I'd start by taking a knife out and measuring it. If it is not wedge shaped like the SS 4" I'd think finding knives would be easy. Much less so if it is 6" and wedge shaped. I see the handle for adjusting fence position and angle is broken, looks similar to the SS and possibly the SS could replace it. The mechanism looks similar to SS, if so you'd push in and turn to loosen allowing the angle of the fence to change and you'd pull out and turn allowing the fence position to change. Don't overtighten.

- David
RCTaylor
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Re: Just bought my first SS... now I have questions

Post by RCTaylor »

David- Thanks for the input. I was so excited about getting one I and seeing it run/operate properly that I didn’t think about the handle being broken. However, I did realize that the sticker labeled “total shop,” probably should have jumped out at me sooner. I saw the chart you mentioned and came to the same conclusion. I’ll have better pictures of the tables and the rest of it this evening hopefully that might help give some insight on what I’ve actually got. When I picked it up it had a shaper fence mounted on the table and the other is in a crate full of other “bits and pieces” I’m afraid I don’t know the proper SS terminology for.
I’ve got to finish a jewelry box project to clear up some work space and then this weekend will be spent mainly inventorying my new investment and cataloguing all the pieces and their condition. I’ll be cleaning, and undoubtedly having more questions, as I go. I’m looking forward to picking everyone’s brains to learn everything I can about what seems to be an amazing piece of equipment.
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JPG
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Re: Just bought my first SS... now I have questions

Post by JPG »

RCTaylor wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 11:43 am . . .
I’m looking forward to picking everyone’s brains to learn everything I can about what seems to be an amazing piece of equipment.
Yes it IS amazing and yes we allow picking(encourage it). Welcome to the funny farm.

I hope there is a jointer blade guard in the box of 'stuff.
╔═══╗
╟JPG ╢
╚═══╝

Goldie(Bought New SN 377425)/4" jointer/6" beltsander/12" planer/stripsander/bandsaw/powerstation /Scroll saw/Jig saw /Craftsman 10" ras/Craftsman 6" thicknessplaner/ Dayton10"tablesaw(restoredfromneighborstrashpile)/ Mark VII restoration in 'progress'/ 10
E[/size](SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange
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chapmanruss
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Re: Just bought my first SS... now I have questions

Post by chapmanruss »

RCTaylor,

Welcome to the Shopsmith Forum.

Since you already know how to add pictures to your post we encourage you do so. It helps in identifying parts and other things you may have questions about. Besides we love seeing pictures. As David has already touched on Mark 5/V's had serial numbers prior to December of 1987. After that the serial number listed on the Shopsmith tools are a date code. As for the Model you have they are all upgradable so what it started out as may not be the model equivalent it is now. All Mark V models have the same Bench, Tailstock and Headstock. The difference is the Table System which also includes the carriage. The Mark V 500 is the original table system that dates back to the introduction of the Mark 5 in 1954. A Mark V 500 is shown below.

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With the introduction of the Mark V 510 and 505 in 1985 the original Mark V became the Mark V 500. The Mark V 510 & 505 introduced the larger table system and with the 510 floating tables and connector tubes thereby expanding the table surface. The 505 did not come with the 2 floating tables, connector tubes or the support legs. Those could be added later. Below is a picture of a Mark V 510.

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01_Model 510.jpg
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In 1999 Shopsmith introduced the Mark V 520 with the Pro Fence system. It is a 510 with extruded aluminum rails instead of the fence rail tubes of the 510 & 505 and a new fence. Again upgrades for the 500, 505 & 510 were made available to make them a 520. Below is a picture of the Mark V 520.

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01_Model 520.jpg
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Russ

Mark V completely upgraded to Mark 7
Mark V 520
All SPT's & 2 Power Stations
Model 10ER S/N R64000 first one I restored on bench w/ metal ends & retractable casters.
Has Speed Changer, 4E Jointer, Jig Saw with lamp, a complete set of original accessories & much more.
Model 10E S/N 1077 oldest one I have restored. 10E S/N 1033 & Mark 2 to be restored.
RCTaylor
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Re: Just bought my first SS... now I have questions

Post by RCTaylor »

JPG- I appreciate the breakdown of the saw table changes to identify the models. I’m pretty sure looking at it that I have a 500. What is your opinion on upgrading it to the 510 or 520 table? I’m kind of leaning towards the more robust 520 table, but have an odd feeling that I’d be committing some sort of “SS sin” by doing so knowing that mine was made in May of 85, we’ll before the introduction of the 520.

Unfortunately my iPhone doesn’t seem to like uploading pictures and I don’t seem to get along with my computer well. So hopefully my kids will be able to help me get more pictures up this weekend.

I have a total shop jointer that I have every intention of using this weekend to finish up a jewelry box for my wife (first project on my Mark V) and then I’ll be tearing the beast down to clean, lube, and inspect. Be ready for a weekend full of questions...

Thank you all for the wealth of knowledge and your willingness to share. It’s the only way we’re going to keep these beautiful machines alive.
RCTaylor
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Re: Just bought my first SS... now I have questions

Post by RCTaylor »

Russ, I read that to fast and apparently got you and JPG confused... I apologize.

I do still want to thank you all. Most of my generation and the ones that have followed (I’m in my early 30’s) don’t seem to say that enough.
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algale
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Re: Just bought my first SS... now I have questions

Post by algale »

Many times you can buy a used 510 or 520 for about the same price as just buying just the table the upgrade new from Shopsmith. Craigslist is your friend. I have never owned a 510. But the 520 table system and fence are excellent.
Gale's Law: The bigger the woodworking project, the less the mistakes show in any photo taken far enough away to show the entire project!

br549
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Re: Just bought my first SS... now I have questions

Post by br549 »

RCTaylor wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 8:54 pm Unfortunately my iPhone doesn’t seem to like uploading pictures and I don’t seem to get along with my computer well. So hopefully my kids will be able to help me get more pictures up this weekend.
Generally problems arise when the image is too large, file-size wise. Not an expert on trying to do from a cell phone, but you may need to use an app to resize the pictures, or adjust your phone's camera settings to a lower resolution.

There are numerous free programs available to resize pictures on a computer.

The new limit on each photo's size is roughly 3 MB (3 MiB). If file is too large, you should get an error message pop-up like this:
Add Attachment Error.jpg
Add Attachment Error.jpg (41.16 KiB) Viewed 386 times

And here is a thread with more tips: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=19246
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chapmanruss
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Re: Just bought my first SS... now I have questions

Post by chapmanruss »

RCTaylor,

You said,
Russ, I read that to fast and apparently got you and JPG confused... I apologize.
Thank you for the complement. JPG is a very knowledgeable person when it comes to the Mark 5/V's. He has owned his Goldie made in the early 1960's since new. He has lived through many of the changes made to the Mark 5/V through the years. Others, like myself have had to learn about the history and changes after the fact.

As for upgrading your Mark V, you should make it work the best for your needs. The changes in the different Models were done so older Mark 5/V's could be upgraded. Even the first Mark 5 Greenies from 1954 can be upgraded to a Mark 7. Now that being said it could be cheaper, as algale suggested, to buy a used 520 instead of upgrading your Mark V with the original Table System. Shop around and see what you can find. While doing so make sure you know the parts needed to change to a 510 or 520 if buying used either the parts or an entire tool. If you buy a Mark V 510 or 520 you could than sell the 500 to recover some of the costs.

As for the Jointer Knives you may not need to get replacements yet unless they are damaged. Sharpening them will make a big difference over using dull knives.
Russ

Mark V completely upgraded to Mark 7
Mark V 520
All SPT's & 2 Power Stations
Model 10ER S/N R64000 first one I restored on bench w/ metal ends & retractable casters.
Has Speed Changer, 4E Jointer, Jig Saw with lamp, a complete set of original accessories & much more.
Model 10E S/N 1077 oldest one I have restored. 10E S/N 1033 & Mark 2 to be restored.
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