New Shopsmith DC-6000 Dust Collector

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RFGuy
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Re: New Shopsmith DC-6000 Dust Collector

Post by RFGuy »

dusty wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 5:31 pm I have a 36" hood and it fully inflates (for whatever that is worth).

What would I gain by changing to a 42" hood other than the claim that it captures smaller particles.?

What is lost by having a taller hood that does not fully inflate.

Does the cake that develops in the hood help or hinder and how? When I change collection bags, I've been knocking all that cake off.
Dusty,

Yes, the taller 42" filter hood filters down to 1 micron supposedly. Where did you get a 36" filter hood? Did Shopsmith sell it at one point in time because they no longer do. As long as the filter hood isn't so small to restrict the blower (motor + impeller) by back pressure then there really is no difference between the different filter hood sizes except for the fact that the taller one filters down to 1 micron. Of course, having a larger filter hood means you can go longer for maintenance, e.g. not having to knock the cake off because of reduced airflow. According to Shopsmith website the 24" filter hood only filters down to 5 micron and the 12" hood only down to 7 microns.

Well, a filter hood that doesn't fully inflate indicates an anemic blower...it means that the airflow is lower than it should be.

Cake in the filter will limit airflow, but it improves collection efficiency. I don't know the filter specs for Shopsmith's filter hoods, but let's say as an example that it is 96% efficient at collecting 1 micron particles. This is ONLY true after there is sufficient cake built up, so a brand new filter with no cake may only be 80% efficient at catching these particles. Once there is a sufficient layer of cake built up then the collection efficiency rises. Just throwing numbers out based on other filters I have seen in the past, i.e. there aren't published numbers for Shopsmith's filter hoods other than them giving the micron rating. Whenever airflow drops too low, the filter cake should be knocked off or at least reduced to improve airflow.
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DLB
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Re: New Shopsmith DC-6000 Dust Collector

Post by DLB »

dusty wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 5:31 pm I have a 36" hood and it fully inflates (for whatever that is worth).

What would I gain by changing to a 42" hood other than the claim that it captures smaller particles.?

What is lost by having a taller hood that does not fully inflate.

Does the cake that develops in the hood help or hinder and how? When I change collection bags, I've been knocking all that cake off.
I don't see a reference to a 36" hood, so that may be an older version(?) SS currently offers 12", 24", and 42". For each increase in hood size, they show a decrease in particle size and an increase in CFM: "Advantage of the 24" filter hood on DC3300 is that it increases airflow 30% or from 330 to 430 CFMs. 42" hood CFM range 695-890 hose is 2 1/2". Diameter plastic end makes it 2 1/4"." From: https://www.shopsmith.com/mediawiki/ind ... Filtration How these numbers were derived and/or tested isn't included. If the numbers were accurate, which I'm not claiming, a DC-3300 with 42" hood has more CFM than a DC-6000 with standard hood. The hoods fit both versions.

Nothing is lost by the hood not fully inflating. Not fully inflating suggest there is very little pressure drop across the filter and that it is not limiting air flow much, if any. So in this case the filter is no longer a 'bottleneck' and could presumably handle considerably more CFM. But if the DC-6000 fully inflated the same hood that would mean more pressure drop across the same filter, which can only be caused by more airflow. Basically it's a poor man's verification method of increased air flow. Especially true if full inflation occurs with only two inlets open, because that would mean more CFM even with more inlet restriction. I'd think it would be hard to observe the difference, and there might be less of a difference, with the smaller hoods.

- David
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dusty
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Re: New Shopsmith DC-6000 Dust Collector

Post by dusty »

RFGuy wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 6:11 pm
dusty wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 5:31 pm I have a 36" hood and it fully inflates (for whatever that is worth).

What would I gain by changing to a 42" hood other than the claim that it captures smaller particles.?

What is lost by having a taller hood that does not fully inflate.

Does the cake that develops in the hood help or hinder and how? When I change collection bags, I've been knocking all that cake off.
Dusty,

Yes, the taller 42" filter hood filters down to 1 micron supposedly. Where did you get a 36" filter hood? Did Shopsmith sell it at one point in time because they no longer do. As long as the filter hood isn't so small to restrict the blower (motor + impeller) by back pressure then there really is no difference between the different filter hood sizes except for the fact that the taller one filters down to 1 micron. Of course, having a larger filter hood means you can go longer for maintenance, e.g. not having to knock the cake off because of reduced airflow. According to Shopsmith website the 24" filter hood only filters down to 5 micron and the 12" hood only down to 7 microns.

Well, a filter hood that doesn't fully inflate indicates an anemic blower...it means that the airflow is lower than it should be.

Cake in the filter will limit airflow, but it improves collection efficiency. I don't know the filter specs for Shopsmith's filter hoods, but let's say as an example that it is 96% efficient at collecting 1 micron particles. This is ONLY true after there is sufficient cake built up, so a brand new filter with no cake may only be 80% efficient at catching these particles. Once there is a sufficient layer of cake built up then the collection efficiency rises. Just throwing numbers out based on other filters I have seen in the past, i.e. there aren't published numbers for Shopsmith's filter hoods other than them giving the micron rating. Whenever airflow drops too low, the filter cake should be knocked off or at least reduced to improve airflow.
I blew it. I don't have a 36". I have a 24". Thanks for the tutorial.
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algale
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Re: New Shopsmith DC-6000 Dust Collector

Post by algale »

DLB wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 6:24 pm For each increase in hood size, they show a decrease in particle size and an increase in CFM: "Advantage of the 24" filter hood on DC3300 is that it increases airflow 30% or from 330 to 430 CFMs. 42" hood CFM range 695-890 hose is 2 1/2". Diameter plastic end makes it 2 1/4"." From: https://www.shopsmith.com/mediawiki/ind ... Filtration
Excuse my ignorance, but is the cited document from an official Shopsmith site or official Shopsmith info?

I have never seen the claim that increasing hood height increases CFM. Intuitively, it does seem plausible to me that if made of the same material (i.e. same pore size) a larger filter will offer less resistance to the impeller pushing air through it and might increase CFM. But, if porosity is smaller in the 42" hood and the hood has achieved maximum filtration efficiency (i.e. has a built-up cake of sawdust) a larger filter might actually decrease CFM in operation.
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Re: New Shopsmith DC-6000 Dust Collector

Post by RFGuy »

algale wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 10:55 am Excuse my ignorance, but is the cited document from an official Shopsmith site or official Shopsmith info?

I have never seen the claim that increasing hood height increases CFM. Intuitively, it does seem plausible to me that if made of the same material (i.e. same pore size) a larger filter will offer less resistance to the impeller pushing air through it and might increase CFM. But, if porosity is smaller in the 42" hood and the hood has achieved maximum filtration efficiency (i.e. has a built-up cake of sawdust) a larger filter might actually decrease CFM in operation.
Alan,

I can't speak to the source of that information from the link, but from my understanding airflow (CFM) of a blower is dependent on the back pressure on the outlet side. This is why blower/vacuum manufacturers have fan curves that they design around for a given airflow or desired current draw. See link below for an example of a fan curve. It is the same thing with fluid pumps, e.g. flow rate is dependent on how much head of suction is applied to the pump. For the DC-3300, going with a taller filter hood should present less restriction to the fan allowing it reach a higher airflow on the fan curve for that RPM motor.

https://www.stanmech.com/articles/how-t ... rfan-curve
📶RF Guy

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Re: New Shopsmith DC-6000 Dust Collector

Post by DLB »

algale wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 10:55 am Excuse my ignorance, but is the cited document from an official Shopsmith site or official Shopsmith info?

I have never seen the claim that increasing hood height increases CFM. Intuitively, it does seem plausible to me that if made of the same material (i.e. same pore size) a larger filter will offer less resistance to the impeller pushing air through it and might increase CFM. But, if porosity is smaller in the 42" hood and the hood has achieved maximum filtration efficiency (i.e. has a built-up cake of sawdust) a larger filter might actually decrease CFM in operation.
The 'mediawiki' information is part of Shopsmith.com. You can get hits on it, for example, when doing a search from the SS home page. I first found it when it was pointed out in another thread here, I believe the search was 'powerpro problem.' From the content, it appears to be geared toward the SS CS person. Whether or not this specific content is accurate or how it was created is another question entirely. I am confident that my DC-3300 has more airflow with this filter than it did with a 12" standard hood. That does not mean I think it is double or better, though, and I have no way to measure it.

- David
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Re: New Shopsmith DC-6000 Dust Collector

Post by dusty »

DLB wrote: Sat Nov 28, 2020 7:17 pm I guess I'm a bit skeptical. Two things I would not expect in a modernized portable Dust Collector at this price point are 2-1/2" ports (only) and a 12" hood style filter. I don't see any way that it can perform well compared to other systems available that offer comparable power, 4" ports, and large filters. But that is based more on physics than skepticism, Shopsmith does not make a lot of performance claims that would cause one to be skeptical. Despite any of that, I would be a likely buyer if a reasonably priced upgrade to the 3300 is made available.

- David
An upgrade would reduce the potenial for a new sale. Dusty says no upgrade likely. Not even a new miter gauge.








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Re: New Shopsmith DC-6000 Dust Collector

Post by JPG »

well the 'upgrade' is official.

I wonder if it will allow rereleasing the 4" port upgrade?

$279 is tempting!
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Re: New Shopsmith DC-6000 Dust Collector

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JPG wrote: Fri Jun 25, 2021 6:30 pm well the 'upgrade' is official.

I wonder if it will allow rereleasing the 4" port upgrade?

$279 is tempting!
Yeah, I just saw the email. That is great news. So, I wonder if the motor is the only change for the DC-6000 or if the impeller is modified as well. In other words will upgrading the motor on the DC-3300 also yield 600CFM or will it be slightly less.
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Porter Cable 12" Compound Miter Saw | Rikon 8" Low Speed Bench Grinder w/CBN wheels | Jessem Clear-Cut TS™ Stock Guides
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Re: New Shopsmith DC-6000 Dust Collector

Post by jsburger »

RFGuy wrote: Fri Jun 25, 2021 8:40 pm
JPG wrote: Fri Jun 25, 2021 6:30 pm well the 'upgrade' is official.

I wonder if it will allow rereleasing the 4" port upgrade?

$279 is tempting!
Yeah, I just saw the email. That is great news. So, I wonder if the motor is the only change for the DC-6000 or if the impeller is modified as well. In other words will upgrading the motor on the DC-3300 also yield 600CFM or will it be slightly less.
Someone please correct me if I am wrong. If the only change is a higher HP motor with the same RPM and no change to the impeller it will not produce more CFM. To get more CFM you have to either increase the motor RPM or change the impeller design.

The add does not say you get a new impeller with the DC3300 upgrade kit so did they change the motor from 1725 RPM to 3450 RPM??? It dose not say you get 600 CFM with the upgrade kit for the DC-3300. It only says you get the POWER of the DC-6000, what ever that means. :confused:
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