Shopsmith Financial?

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:48 pm

Ed in Tampa wrote:Bill
I would think the Demo'er would also have to have himself protected from non performance and injury liabilites also.

I could just see some guy buy a Shopsmith after a slick demo and find out it also requires a degree of skill to accomplish some of those demo feats.

In today's courts he would probably prevail unless the Demo'er had a signed paper saying he was forewarned that if he had two left feet he wouldn't be able to work the machine.

Remember 'Yuba'!

msmith1199 · Post by **msmith1199** » Fri Oct 28, 2011 10:08 pm

Ed in Tampa wrote:Great Idea except what happens when an unethical fellow comes along and promises the moon to sell a Shopsmith. The fallout from that could in fact destroy the company. You don't want someone that isn't working for you to be selling anything you care about.

Although I understand that, it's a system that works for hundreds of thousands of companies. Actually it's a system that works for the vast majority. GM, Ford, Honda, etc. all sell their products through dealers that own their own dealerships. McDonalds, Burger King, etc. are all the same. You make a deal with your franchisees or contractors and tell them what they can and can't do, and if they screw it up you sever your ties.

msmith1199 · Post by **msmith1199** » Fri Oct 28, 2011 10:10 pm

billmayo wrote:I investigated this idea a few years ago to even talking with a lawyer friend who did this type of work. The liabilities that Shopsmith could incur with this type of independant contractor arrangement at that time could far exceed Shopsmith's net worth. The various insurances needed would require many Shopsmiths to be sold just to pay that one bill. The total fees exceeded any fee doctors paid then to protect themselves. Shopsmith was not interested in this type of relationship at that time. Now with family and former employees, I would have no idea how they are supporting the demo people these days. Maybe someone could ask at the next demo about insurance and liabilities involved. I doubt if you will get an answer but still worth asking.

Like I wrote to the last guy, this is how many companies sell their products. How is there more liability in having a contractor or a franchisee versus your own salaried company employee?

Ed in Tampa · Post by **Ed in Tampa** » Sat Oct 29, 2011 1:06 am

msmith1199 wrote:Although I understand that, it's a system that works for hundreds of thousands of companies. Actually it's a system that works for the vast majority. GM, Ford, Honda, etc. all sell their products through dealers that own their own dealerships. McDonalds, Burger King, etc. are all the same. You make a deal with your franchisees or contractors and tell them what they can and can't do, and if they screw it up you sever your ties.

Okay you didn't mention franchise, I got the opinion you were thinking of anybody could get into the act. All you needed was the time and if they wanted to make some money the ability to sale.

Incidentally if a car dealer over sales a car promises something that can't be delivered the manufacture can be and often is sued for product misrepresentation. Sure they may drop the dealership but the damage is done.
When the woman spilt MacDonalds coffee on herself I believe MacDonald's corp was included in the law suit.

msmith1199 · Post by **msmith1199** » Sat Oct 29, 2011 9:00 pm

Ed in Tampa wrote:Okay you didn't mention franchise, I got the opinion you were thinking of anybody could get into the act. All you needed was the time and if they wanted to make some money the ability to sale.

Incidentally if a car dealer over sales a car promises something that can't be delivered the manufacture can be and often is sued for product misrepresentation. Sure they may drop the dealership but the damage is done.
When the woman spilt MacDonalds coffee on herself I believe MacDonald's corp was included in the law suit.

But if you don't sell any cars (or Shopsmith's) you don't make money. There is liability in everything. I personally think Shopsmith is suffering because people don't know about their product. I was just in a woodworking class at a Woodcrafter store. Only one other person in the class knew what a Shopsmith was because he owned one. Everybody else in the class was trying to figure out how to get all these big powertools in their little shop space. The class instructor didn't like it at all when I started telling people about the Shopsmith. He bad mouthed it and talked about how much better it was to have individual tools. (because he sold those tools and not Shopsmiths) If I had a 2000 square foot shop I would have individual tools. But if you don't have the space the Shopsmith is perfect. But when nobody knows about your product, how can you sell it?

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Sat Oct 29, 2011 10:53 pm

msmith1199 wrote:But if you don't sell any cars (or Shopsmith's) you don't make money. There is liability in everything. I personally think Shopsmith is suffering because people don't know about their product. I was just in a woodworking class at a Woodcrafter store. Only one other person in the class knew what a Shopsmith was because he owned one. Everybody else in the class was trying to figure out how to get all these big powertools in their little shop space. The class instructor didn't like it at all when I started telling people about the Shopsmith. He bad mouthed it and talked about how much better it was to have individual tools. (because he sold those tools and not Shopsmiths) If I had a 2000 square foot shop I would have individual tools. But if you don't have the space the Shopsmith is perfect. But when nobody knows about your product, how can you sell it?

Wonder if he ever used one(or even ever laid eyes or hands on one)?

ryanbp01 · Post by **ryanbp01** » Sun Oct 30, 2011 11:46 am

msmith1199 wrote:But if you don't sell any cars (or Shopsmith's) you don't make money. There is liability in everything. I personally think Shopsmith is suffering because people don't know about their product. I was just in a woodworking class at a Woodcrafter store. Only one other person in the class knew what a Shopsmith was because he owned one. Everybody else in the class was trying to figure out how to get all these big powertools in their little shop space. The class instructor didn't like it at all when I started telling people about the Shopsmith. He bad mouthed it and talked about how much better it was to have individual tools. (because he sold those tools and not Shopsmiths) If I had a 2000 square foot shop I would have individual tools. But if you don't have the space the Shopsmith is perfect. But when nobody knows about your product, how can you sell it?

The experience at Woodcraft is nothing new, nor should it be surprising. Shopsmith is a competitor for the large tools that Woodcraft sells. When the Woodcraft store was here, I encountered the same issues when it came to Shopsmith tools. One employee was really vocal with his anti-Shopsmith bias. However one of the other employees owned one and he was the one I would talk with and buy from.

I have seen the same thing in reverse on this forum when it comes to badmouthing other equipment competitors. For me, the Shopsmith system is the right one for me. However, that is not to say someone else doesn't have a system which is best for them. I wouldn't doubt the Woodcraft employee had seen a Shopsmith. But keep in mind his job is to promote what Woodcraft sells in the way of equipment, not his competition.

BPR

dusty · Post by **dusty** » Sun Oct 30, 2011 12:11 pm

There are no untruths that have been expressed here; however, I believe that it is totally uncalled for when when a dealer (or his representative) talks down the equipment that I own just because he sells something different.

I have had words with a member of a local retail staff who spoke negatively of my Shopsmith's ability to perform adequately. Now, whenever I do business there, I frequently engage in conversation there and never miss a chance to mention Shopsmith.

Interestingly, I purchased my Mark V and many of my accessories from a Woodcraft store. Woodcraft here in Tucson is currently pushing Sawstop and Festool.

wallpaperman · Post by **wallpaperman** » Sun Oct 30, 2011 3:49 pm

Woodcraft. They think they know it all ??? I only go in for small items, all big items can be order online for less with no shipping or tax.

msmith1199 · Post by **msmith1199** » Sun Oct 30, 2011 9:37 pm

JPG40504 wrote:Wonder if he ever used one(or even ever laid eyes or hands on one)?

I took a bowl turning class today and the instructor was also bad mouthing the Shopsmith. Then when I was asking him a question a while later he told me he had never used a Shopsmith. Wonder how he knew how bad it was when he had never used one.