Vertical Drilling - not quite vertical.

[billmayo]

If your tubes are bent which could happen if they and the headstock fell from vertical, or someone decided to some other damage to it. The tubes will not deflect under the weight of any of the tools and headstock under normal conditions.

Ed

I find around 20% of the way tubes I accumulate are bent. I find a few bench tubes are also bent. I took around 24 bent tubes to the scrap metal dealer last month. Good price these days. I detect these bent tubes when mounting them on my Shopsmith cleaning, sanding and polishing tube machine. Most bent tubes are quite noticeable and vibrate when spinning at 800 RPM.

I have not found any bent 10E/10ER way tubes. The 10ER tubes polish up much better than the Mark V tubes so I use them on all my personal Shopsmiths. I believe the 10ER tubes help dampen some headstock vibrations too.

My best guess is leaving the headstock in the center of the way tubes for years and moving the Shopsmith to various locations (rough floor). Also, dropping the headstock the last foot or so when coming from the vertical to horizontal positions which has happen to me a few times (slipped from my hand).

[charlese]

I tried vertical drilling and realized the raised SS assembly did not arc through 90 degrees. Substantially off in fact.

I need to add around 1.5" of packing under the headrest end legs to get it near vertical and then adjust the main table to get the table headstock at right-angles.

Have to comment here because the highlighted sentence quoted just doesn't make sense to me. Maybe someone can explain?

If the end of the 510 is raised, or not, the relationship between the headstock and the main table is NOT changed!

Messing with tubes prior to checking out the lock screw, as earlier suggested may lead to other troubles. Even having the lock screw being "in" too far to allow the tubes to be truly vertical would not effect the headstock/table orientation.

Alfatipo - Can you include a photo of your hinge situation?

[robinson46176]

I have one of these and not only does it do a good job of bending heavy pipe it also does a good job of straightening pipe. I usually use straight edges and tight string when straightening a pipe (a lot of farm equipment uses pipe as frame members etc.). I have also used it to straighten steel shafting. Note that I have never used it on SS tubes, I have not needed to but I am sure that it would do the job.
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[alfatipo]

I think Bill just put a premium on 10ER tubes. Good info.

I had a thread running on quill wobble and I am coming to the realization that my concerns are not an issue in practice.

I understand (now) that table alignment, once correctly set with the stops in relation to the spindle, should remain the same regardless of the vertical angle.

Run-out in the way tubes however changes that relationship but I'm thinking that it is a non-issue given the small difference.

I shall at some point get another base mount and modify it with adjustable stops to set a true 90 degree swing; I hate to see mechanical devices look wrong. Must be the old saw 'if it looks right (or wrong) it probably is'. Besides, drills roll off the table if it isn't square to Earth's gravitational pull.

[JPG]

[quote="alfatipo . . .

I shall at some point get another base mount and modify it with adjustable stops to set a true 90 degree swing"]

If you MUST achieve 90° 'tilt', do so by filing down the projections on the end of the hinge casting. They serve as a stop for the vertical position. When raised, those projections rest on the horizontal surface of the fixed portion of the hinged end casting.

I will add i pix if I can find one.

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I had to create one!!

[robinson46176]

If you MUST achieve 90° 'tilt', do so by filing down the projections on the end of the hinge casting. They serve as a stop for the vertical position. When raised, those projections rest on the horizontal surface of the fixed portion of the hinged end casting.

Another one of those things they had considered when they designed the old Mark VII... It has adjustable stops on both ends for alignment when vertical. They may have been thinking that the pivot points might eventually wear enough to need some adjustment.


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[dusty]

If you MUST achieve 90° 'tilt', do so by filing down the projections on the end of the hinge casting. They serve as a stop for the vertical position. When raised, those projections rest on the horizontal surface of the fixed portion of the hinged end casting.

I will add i pix if I can find one.

[ATTACH]15033[/ATTACH]

I had to create one!!

"I need to add around 1.5" of packing under the headrest end legs to get it near vertical and then adjust the main table to get the table headstock at right-angles."


This is a quote from the opening post. If he had to lift the legs up 1.5" to achieve vertical - I don't think you have enough latitude to correct the problem by doing this.

Added Comment: That equates to approximately 1.5° off vertical.

Actually, I doubt that we know what the real problem is yet.

Again I say, pictures would be a great help in understanding this.

In the meantime: How many degrees of additional rotation would it take to produce vertical way tubes.

[JPG]

"I need to add around 1.5" of packing under the headrest end legs to get it near vertical and then adjust the main table to get the table headstock at right-angles."


This is a quote from the opening post. If he had to lift the legs up 1.5" to achieve vertical - I don't think you have enough latitude to correct the problem by doing this.

Actually, I doubt that we know what the real problem is yet.

Again I say, pictures would be a great help in understanding this.

In the meantime: How many degrees of additional rotation would it take to produce vertical way tubes.

As I understood it, that 1.5" increase was to the left end which was almost 5' from the pivot point at the opposite end. The .1" is at a 5" radius from the pivot pin.

1.5/60 = 0.025

.1/5 = 0.02

Angles are close!!!!

Really not much to unnerstand!:D The ss does not rotate exactly 90° from 'horizontal' to 'vertical' (nor does it matter!!!!) As far as I am concerned, the only angle requirement is so that the balance point/CG is passed prior to it being 'stopped'/secured. That allows the balance stress to be towards remaining 'vertical'. The lock is to prevent it falling if the CG somehow gets shifted back towards the left end by workpiece loads etc.

Are we going to be concerned if the way tubes are not exactly horizontal when it is lowered?:rolleyes: Of course not, nor should we be concerned that the tubes are not vertical when raised.

Cut him some slack, he is 'new' and rightfully proud of his new acquisition and wants it to be perfect even though all things do not need to be so nor are they! The important things are close enough!!! We need to help him 'overcome' his new found tool enthusiasm by listening and hopefully get him to accept the things that really do not matter!;)

P.S. CG == Center of Gravity

[dusty]

Mine does not rotate to 90° either. Mine only rotates to 89.1°.

I think that is different than I have previously reported but then that might have been on a different machine. I am not at all alarmed by that. This is not a critical setup.

I did some additional experimenting with this and here are the results:

With a .040" thick shim inserted, it rotates to 88.7°.

With a .235" thick shim inserted, it rotates to 85.8°.

[dusty]

Emperical data indicates that this issue would not be that difficult to resolve.

Mine could be made to rise to a full 90° by simply filing off .072" as JPG had suggested.