Speed Control Problems - New Member

[billparker]

Hi Everyone,

This is my first post on the forum (although, actually the third, but the other two didn't show up) I've had that problem on another forum powered by vBulletin so maybe it's a glitch in the software. Anyway, if this message appears more than once, it's beyond my humble attempts. I tried and was careful.

I just purchased a used Mark V 500, vintage 1978, I think, from an eBay Seller. At least 2 had owned machine before me and it showed. It needs work -- 2 belts need to be replaced with new ones. The speed Control is out of whack and needs calibration. Needs clean up and paint in places. I need your help to get thru this, if you'll be so kind as to help, I would be most appreciative.

In 1978, I bought a new SS Mark V 500 with bandsaw from the Shopsmith factory. I was in the Air Force at the time and used the machinery for about 18 months before a transfer happened. Next few abodes were not conducive for Woodworking -- no space -- no place. Then I gave the whole thing to my son-in-law. I had retired from the AF by this time and had not settled down permanently yet. Now I am.

Now I have another house with a partial basement. I've made a nice shop, but decided I wanted some of the things a SS will do, so I just got one at an el-cheapo price and condition.

Adding to the problem is that, at 78, I'm an old f*** and my mental capacities are slipping. I'm not as sharp as I once was and so I have to take things easy and carefully.

Here are some things I have done beside order parts. I looked at "Sawdust Session # 23" that shows overhaul of the headstock to include the 2 problem belts. The main drive belt is intact but badly frayed and separating -- won't last long. The poly v looks OK but needs tensioning. I replacing it just to know it is new. I also looked the site, a "the Song of the Great Lakes -- Shopsmith", which has a lot good stuff in it.

My Speed Control is all messed up. If I don't have this messed up in my mind here is what it does. It starts at Q and goes all the way aroung the dial past Q to R again. The dial passes Fast and Slow and does not correspond to the actual speed vs what the speed dial says. I took the dial changer off and the locknut for the speed mechanical screw was loose.


I. Can I work on the speed dial without belts installed and how should I procede?
2. Should I wait until I get the drive belts in and tensioned before doing the speed dial?
Anything else I should know to contend with this would be most helpful.


Hope to get settled and provide some assistance to others myself in the future.

Bill Parker:)

[alfatipo]

Bill, welcome to the forums. I'm sure many more experienced SS owners will jump in but being a recent owner of an older machine I highly recommend an overhaul (mostly cleaning and proper lubrication) before running the machine and trying to adjust anything.

If there is any stiffness in the speed control you run the risk of damage even if the motor is running. It should never be forced to move.

There are many helpful posts on the forum that can be found by searching in addition to the official Shopsmith.com info.

[JPG]

. . .


I. Can I work on the speed dial without belts installed and how should I procede?
2. Should I wait until I get the drive belts in and tensioned before doing the speed dial?
Anything else I should know to contend with this would be most helpful.


Hope to get settled and provide some assistance to others myself in the future.

Bill Parker:)

1) Yes you can! It is the presence of the drive belt between the idler pulley sheaves that creates the need to NEVER adjust without the pulley turning. Adjusting towards slow without the pulley turning results in the speed control trying to compress the belt(squeeze it). I recommend removing the entire speed control to work with it. With it out in yer hands, it is much easier to see and observe how it functions.

2) The next to last step in reinstalling the speed control is aligning the outer ring(the dial with speed settings etc). The last step is attaching the crank. It is the gears on the crank that turn the idler gear(the one with the loose nut) which in turn turns the outer ring.

If you have not yet discovered the quadrant gear pivot improvement (ala Bill Mayo) and cannot now locate it, holler. I cannot recommend it too much(it really really is a significant improvement and can resurrect a badly damaged quadrant gear).


Here is a thread relevant to your interest. Note the link in post #5 - It sends you to the post by Bill Mayo that demonstrates his quadrant gear pivot 'fix'. Notice the typical damage to the gear threads on the one being illustrated. When again properly aligned, that abnormal wear does not come into play.

http://www.shopsmith.net/forums/showthr ... t=quadrant

[jimthej]

Bill, put your location into your profile. You may be close to one of us who can come, drink your coffee and teach you the official Shopsmith Swear words. I know I have visited the guy who lives about a mile from me and helped him experiment on his machine. We even got a couple of actual repairs done, including fixing a dead motor (start winding switch repair).

[dusty]

Hi Everyone,

This is my first post on the forum (although, actually the third, but the other two didn't show up) I've had that problem on another forum powered by vBulletin so maybe it's a glitch in the software. Anyway, if this message appears more than once, it's beyond my humble attempts. I tried and was careful.

I just purchased a used Mark V 500, vintage 1978, I think, from an eBay Seller. At least 2 had owned machine before me and it showed. It needs work -- 2 belts need to be replaced with new ones. The speed Control is out of whack and needs calibration. Needs clean up and paint in places. I need your help to get thru this, if you'll be so kind as to help, I would be most appreciative.

In 1978, I bought a new SS Mark V 500 with bandsaw from the Shopsmith factory. I was in the Air Force at the time and used the machinery for about 18 months before a transfer happened. Next few abodes were not conducive for Woodworking -- no space -- no place. Then I gave the whole thing to my son-in-law. I had retired from the AF by this time and had not settled down permanently yet. Now I am.

Now I have another house with a partial basement. I've made a nice shop, but decided I wanted some of the things a SS will do, so I just got one at an el-cheapo price and condition.

Adding to the problem is that, at 78, I'm an old f*** and my mental capacities are slipping. I'm not as sharp as I once was and so I have to take things easy and carefully.

Here are some things I have done beside order parts. I looked at "Sawdust Session # 23" that shows overhaul of the headstock to include the 2 problem belts. The main drive belt is intact but badly frayed and separating -- won't last long. The poly v looks OK but needs tensioning. I replacing it just to know it is new. I also looked the site, a "the Song of the Great Lakes -- Shopsmith", which has a lot good stuff in it.

My Speed Control is all messed up. If I don't have this messed up in my mind here is what it does. It starts at Q and goes all the way aroung the dial past Q to R again. The dial passes Fast and Slow and does not correspond to the actual speed vs what the speed dial says. I took the dial changer off and the locknut for the speed mechanical screw was loose.


I. Can I work on the speed dial without belts installed and how should I procede?
2. Should I wait until I get the drive belts in and tensioned before doing the speed dial?
Anything else I should know to contend with this would be most helpful.


Hope to get settled and provide some assistance to others myself in the future.

Bill Parker:)

Welcome to the forum, Bill. You have come to the right place. This seems to be a gathering place for those who are not moving so fast anymore, can't see as well as they once did and NEED the lift assist on our Mark V.

Please consider filling out some of the personal profile. You might be a next door neighbor to one of us.

To work on the speed control I would recommend that you pull the main drive belt and drop the motor pan and motor. This will allow you to put the Mark V in drill press mode where you can see what you are working on.

I also believe, as someone else said, that you should pull the speed control completely out so that you can inspect it well, clean it real good, lubricate it and put it back.

If you can post pictures of your findings, we will be better enabled to give good advice.

Patience is the key to success at this point.

Good luck. We'll have you making sawdust in no time.

[billmayo]

Hi Everyone,

This is my first post on the forum (although, actually the third, but the other two didn't show up) I've had that problem on another forum powered by vBulletin so maybe it's a glitch in the software. Anyway, if this message appears more than once, it's beyond my humble attempts. I tried and was careful.

I just purchased a used Mark V 500, vintage 1978, I think, from an eBay Seller. At least 2 had owned machine before me and it showed. It needs work -- 2 belts need to be replaced with new ones. The speed Control is out of whack and needs calibration. Needs clean up and paint in places. I need your help to get thru this, if you'll be so kind as to help, I would be most appreciative.

In 1978, I bought a new SS Mark V 500 with bandsaw from the Shopsmith factory. I was in the Air Force at the time and used the machinery for about 18 months before a transfer happened. Next few abodes were not conducive for Woodworking -- no space -- no place. Then I gave the whole thing to my son-in-law. I had retired from the AF by this time and had not settled down permanently yet. Now I am.

Now I have another house with a partial basement. I've made a nice shop, but decided I wanted some of the things a SS will do, so I just got one at an el-cheapo price and condition.

Adding to the problem is that, at 78, I'm an old f*** and my mental capacities are slipping. I'm not as sharp as I once was and so I have to take things easy and carefully.

Here are some things I have done beside order parts. I looked at "Sawdust Session # 23" that shows overhaul of the headstock to include the 2 problem belts. The main drive belt is intact but badly frayed and separating -- won't last long. The poly v looks OK but needs tensioning. I replacing it just to know it is new. I also looked the site, a "the Song of the Great Lakes -- Shopsmith", which has a lot good stuff in it.

My Speed Control is all messed up. If I don't have this messed up in my mind here is what it does. It starts at Q and goes all the way aroung the dial past Q to R again. The dial passes Fast and Slow and does not correspond to the actual speed vs what the speed dial says. I took the dial changer off and the locknut for the speed mechanical screw was loose.


I. Can I work on the speed dial without belts installed and how should I procede?
2. Should I wait until I get the drive belts in and tensioned before doing the speed dial?
Anything else I should know to contend with this would be most helpful.


Hope to get settled and provide some assistance to others myself in the future.

Bill Parker:)

Check your Private Messages. I am located in Plant City, FL off I-75, not a great distance from you.

Bill Mayo

[JPG]

Check your Private Messages. I am located in Plant City, FL off I-75, not a great distance from you.

Bill Mayo

YES! Do take it for a road trip! You will not be sorry! Tie it down securely(those wild I75 drivers will scare the bejabbers out of it!:D).

The headstock is all that needs a trip!;)

[billparker]

To the first responders who were kind enough to help -- thanks!

Sorry, about not filling out more details of location, etc. Shoulda done that early on, but I'm getting more and more remiss about doing the things I should do and doing 'em in a timely mannner. The Shopsmith is a bit complicated, mechanically, and I want to be sure I don't get it all taken apart and find that I should've done one or more things before getting to the state of disarray and confusion.

I started this reply yesterday, but just about the time I was ready to post it, the Shopsmith site went down. Fortunately, I had enough foresight to type it on a word processor, so I didn't lose what I had typed. Since I couldn't get the site to pull up, I decided to throw caution to the wind and to just jump in and do a lot on the overhaul even if it was wrong.

I've known from my earlier experience with my other Mark V that you don't turn the speed control unless the machine is running. Knew it had something to do with the floating sheaves, etc.

Where do you leave the speed control set on shutdown? I don't remember that, or is it important?

My new SS (old, really) has a serial number of 239??. I think that makes it a '78 model. I'm not sure of the model # - I think it must be a 500.

The main drive belt was about to fail at any moment so I cut it in two. A new one's on order -- should be here around first of the week.

The poly V belt looks OK, but has about 3/8" slack from pushing on the side. I'm replacing it while I'm changing the main drive belt.

I've removed the entire speed changer. The pork chop isn't bent, but the teeth on the slow end of the gear face are bent a little. The worm gear is AOK. The two gears work OK together with a slight amount of binding near the slow end of the "rack" gear. Should I change this?

I decided to drop the entire motor, along with covers, so I can get at everything easily. I put the unit into the drill press mode as other have recommended and you really can get to everything better. I need to do a lot of cleaning.

What's a good solvent for cleaning dirty aluminum parts? I'd like to reduce some of the inevitable elbow grease required.

My speed controller is not matching the speed of the machine when it is running. If I take it out, how do I re-install it so that SLOW is slow and FAST is fast and the alphabet corresponds to what it should? This is the big question!

I live in Macon, Georgia far from most of you guys. We're a town about 80 miles south of Atlanta smack dab in the middle of the state. We have a population of around 100,000 and not growing much.

Thanks again,
Bill Parker

[JPG]

. . .
Where do you leave the speed control set on shutdown? I don't remember that, or is it important? Generally speaking, turned down to slow. However that is carry over from 3/4 hp motor 15A circuit days. Doing so reduces the torque needed to get started. If however, there is no stalling or excessive light dimming, it is not necessary.

My new SS (old, really) has a serial number of 239??. I think that makes it a '78 model. I'm not sure of the model # - I think it must be a 500.

The main drive belt was about to fail at any moment so I cut it in two. A new one's on order -- should be here around first of the week.

The poly V belt looks OK, but has about 3/8" slack from pushing on the side. I'm replacing it while I'm changing the main drive belt.

I've removed the entire speed changer. The pork chop isn't bent, but the teeth on the slow end of the gear face are bent a little. The worm gear is AOK. The two gears work OK together with a slight amount of binding near the slow end of the "rack" gear. Should I change this? Recent posts regarding an improvement have occurred. If I can locate them, I will add a link to that thread. SEE post #3 this thread

I decided to drop the entire motor, along with covers, so I can get at everything easily. I put the unit into the drill press mode as other have recommended and you really can get to everything better. I need to do a lot of cleaning.

What's a good solvent for cleaning dirty aluminum parts? I like to reduce some of the inevitable elbow grease required. Whatever works that you already have.]

My speed controller is not matching the speed of the machine when it is running. If I take it out, how do I re-install it so that SLOW is slow and FAST is fast and the alphabet corresponds to what it should? This is the big question! The next to last step in reassembling is to 'set' the indicator dial.

I live in Macon, Georgia far from most of you guys. We're a town about 80 miles south of Atlanta smack dab in the middle of the state. We have a population of around 100,000 and not growing much.

Thanks again,
Bill Parker

The poly-v belt tension is easily set. Replacing the poly-v belt requires more disassembly. The main drive belt does not involve removal of any 'innards other than the belt.

[billparker]

Could be that replacing the poly-v will prove to be a big hassle, but I thought I'd try while I was "inside" and had the "operating room" set up. All of the speed controller out, and standing upright and almost "naked". It may be the shaft will be too stubborn and I will decide to wait til the poly breaks.

I did cut the main drive belt out since it was coming out anyway. It was really ragged and that was the easiest way to get it out.

Talking about the speed control dial alignment, when you say 'set', do you mean align the machine for high speed by the belt position of 1/16" from the top and then install the dial to Fast? You weren't too clear (that translates to "I'm too dumb to understand exactly what you meant").

JPG, thanks for your quick responses.

Bill