Belt noise

[dusty]

It is difficult to debate and impossible to resolve in an online situation. If I could feel the level of vibration, I would take a stand. If Charlese could feel the level of vibration, he might reaffirm his stand.

My Shopsmith may not be typical but I have some vibration.

I just put my miter gauge in the track with nothing else on the table and turned on the Shopsmith. The miter gauge ever so slowly creeps to what I know to be the low side of the Shopsmith (my garage floor slops toward the garage door).

If there was no vibration - would that happen?

Is this level of vibration more or less than what solicitr experiences?

Whatever, I hope you get your machine to a level where you are comfortable that it is performing normally. Good Luck.

[solicitr]

On mine the miter gauge rattles rather audibly in its slot- does yours also, or is mine 'worse?'




NB How much side play is permitted in the floating control sheave? Not that I can see it actually causing a problem, so long as it slides freely.

[dusty]

You may have more vibration than I do. I can not hear the miter rattle in the track. I do not see that it is rattling; it just moves ever so slowly.

If I am actually using the Shopsmith I would never notice what I am attempting to describe.

Other than lubricate it, I have no experience with the sheaves. Someone who has disassembled and put back together the sheave assembles will have to answer this question.

This is the beauty of this forum. There are always experienced users to call on when others have no answers.

[greitz]

Are you sure the SS is sitting solidly on the floor? My garage floor is so hideously non-level that my normal procedure is to:
1. position the SS approximately where I want it and lower the SS off the casters
2. yank on one leg section, back and forth until that side doesn't rock
3. repeat for the other side
4. grab the bench tubes and give them a good yank. If there's any rocking at all, repeat steps 2-4.

I usually keep a pencil laying in one of the grooves of the auxiliary table, and it stays there if I do the above procedure. If I forget, the pencil's on the floor within a minute or so, so that's my reminder to go back and yank on the legs.

For the Pro Planer, I put a section of one on those anti-fatigue rubber mats under the legs, and the planer stays in one place. Without the mat, the planer slowly walks across the floor. Haven't tried the mat trick yet for the SS legs, though, don't know why.

Gary

[solicitr]

Right. Gutted the beast.

1) Poly-V belt is trashed (possibly my fault). Most likely cause of vibration all by itself. Replace.

2) Drive belt is in good shape, not cracking or frayed. Still just over 1/2" wide, which I think means it has some life left in it. Will dress and reinstall

3) Floating conrtol sheave wiggles some on the shaft- but is this deliberate clearance? (hub and shaft also coated with some sticky gunk like old WD-40- need cleaning and relube). Both sheaves otherwise in great shape.



Now- what about the bearings? Unsurprisingly they all sound dry. They turn freely without making any noise other than balls-in-races.

Now, how much play (axial and radial) is acceptable in these? And how might one try to get some lube into them?


PS Gary- thanks, but the base is foursquare and level.

[james.miller]

If the bearings are quiet they are probably good. Has the SS sat long enough without being ran to develop a flat spot in the drive belt? I keep an extra set of belts on hand so I won't have to wait for an order to ship in case I ever need one.

Also check out the SS repair DVD by Jacob Anderson, it may have some helpful information. http://cgi.ebay.com/Repair-your-Shopsmi ... dZViewItem

[billmayo]

1). The Poly-V belt on the Drive Sleeve pulley should have 2 ribs showing on each side of the belt. You use the Idler Shaft and eccentric bushing to align and tension the Poly-V belt. Too little or too much tension will cause drive sleeve and idler shaft bearings to operate hotter than normal. The headstock will get a lot hotter when operating under a heavy load like the 12" planer.

2). I find most of the headstock vibration comes from the motor belt. The belt will take a set if the headstock is not operated for some time. Belt dressing did not really help the vibration but did eliminate any noise/squealing the belt was causing. If the headstock is not beening used regularly, I recommend using the link (quick-twist) type belt (35 links) as it reduces most of the vibration.

3). If the key and keyway has play, you will get some strange noises. I do not find any noticeable play (>.003") with any of the sliding sheaves. I find there can be some clearence problems with the sliding sheaves and shaft. I have many sets of the idler, floating and stationary sheaves and shafts. Once I match up a set of sheaves and shaft, I store them together. I take the remaining sheaves and try to match up another set or two for each sheave and/or shaft I get. I also find sheaves that stick when closed so I swap them around untill they do not stick together. Shopsmith now recommends a few drops of #10 non-detergent oil for the sliding sheaves.

If a ball bearing makes any kind of noise, feels rough, hard to turn, has play between the races or runs free for more than 3 sec when spun, I replace them. I do not recommend oiling any sealed bearing except in an emergency as a temp solution until a new bearing is installed.

Bill Mayo

Right. Gutted the beast.

1) Poly-V belt is trashed (possibly my fault). Most likely cause of vibration all by itself. Replace.

2) Drive belt is in good shape, not cracking or frayed. Still just over 1/2" wide, which I think means it has some life left in it. Will dress and reinstall

3) Floating conrtol sheave wiggles some on the shaft- but is this deliberate clearance? (hub and shaft also coated with some sticky gunk like old WD-40- need cleaning and relube). Both sheaves otherwise in great shape.



Now- what about the bearings? Unsurprisingly they all sound dry. They turn freely without making any noise other than balls-in-races.

Now, how much play (axial and radial) is acceptable in these? And how might one try to get some lube into them?


PS Gary- thanks, but the base is foursquare and level.

[charlese]

Right. Gutted the beast...

3) Floating control sheave wiggles some on the shaft- but is this deliberate clearance? (hub and shaft also coated with some sticky gunk like old WD-40- need cleaning and relube). Both sheaves otherwise in great shape.

Now- what about the bearings? Unsurprisingly they all sound dry. They turn freely without making any noise other than balls-in-races.

Now, how much play (axial and radial) is acceptable in these? And how might one try to get some lube into them?

Bill - I can only tell you how my Mark V operates. -----Bill Mayo has had magnitudes more experience in rebuilding Mark Vs.

1st -- My unit has no vibration throughout the speed range. Having never heard of a nickle test -(but thought it was interesting) today I stood a nickle on edge on the main table and ran the unit (bare spindle) through the entire speed range and back. The nickle rotated a bit, but did not fall or roll. Laying my hand on the headstock - I can definitely feel the works running, but would not call it a vibration.

2nd -- I was at one time having strange noises and some vibration - especially at high speeds of 'R' and above. When I took down the headstock, I found the Idler shaft assembly and Control sheave assembly had problems. The shaft was loose in the sheave tube. (the one you oil through) The key-way was worn and although the sliding of the sheave/tube was smooth - it could wobble. A replacement of the Idler Sheave assembly and Control Sheave assembly solved all issues. These two units make up the upper shaft that connects to the speed control quadrant.
I can't tell you specifically the amount of wobble that was present in my upper shaft, but referring to #3 in Bill Mayo's post is most likely a good recommendation. My new Idler shaft/ Control sheave - when put together with a little oil - has absolutely no wobble. It works like the slide in a well cared for trombone.

A new bearing comes with the shaft. It almost broke my frugal heart that I had to replace the big bearing that is on the shaft. I still have my old shaft and bearing, because just couldn't bear to throw out the old one.

3rd --(and last) I don't think these bearing take lubrication. Although I have heard they can and will wear out. Probably from sitting though periods of time and condensation. If they turn freely their probably still good.

[solicitr]

Thanks, all. I had wondered if you could use a link belt with a SS, so now I guess I will.

The bearings are probably not going to last a whole lot longer, but IMO it's not time to replace them yet. They're notsloppy, noisy or rough.

As for the control sheave- yes, it must be the keyway that's slightly worn, so that there's a touch of side-to-side or rotational play ('wobble' isn't quite accurate). I think I'll see if it is causing a major problem before I fork over the big bucks to replace the thing.

Poly-V belt alignment:I think I must have a weird one. As per Bill, and Nick's video and other sources, in a B headstock the belt ought to have two grooves on either side, whereas apparently with the C it's aligned one notch over. Well, when I bought this one it was aligned 1-and-3, not 2-and-2, and was running well before I monkeyed with it. When I retensioned I changed it to what ought to be spec, and caused these problems for myself. On my particular SS aligning it 2-and-2 angled the belt- leading to racket, heat, and rapid belt failure. Why this should be I don't know.

[solicitr]

Ed- it's a standard 1/2-inch A-profile belt, right?