Still a few pen turning questions

[reible]

Hi,

I've read so many posts of doing things this way or that way or here is another option but if you do this....

I'm not as young as I use to be so lets see if I have some idea of what I'm going to try and what I need to purchase yet to do it.

I have lathe tools.

I have my shopsmith with nova G3 chuck.

I have a live 60 deg. center for the tail stock.

I have both the MT2 adapter and the shopsmith drill chuck.

I have a way to cut a pen blank in half.

I have a router chuck for 1/4" bits that fits a drive mandrel which has spacers and nut to tighten, and a 60 deg end on the tail stock end.

I have a water activated foamy glue stuff which I don't remember the name of at this moment.

I have what I believe will work as a press.

I have sanding and finishing supplies.

======================================================

What I know I'm missing is a barrel trimmer. [Not sure I need the trimmer head as I can do the sanding and I can make a simple jig if I see any issues with the hole not being centered during the drilling, you know, to fix that issue. I guess you are stuck with the pilot shafts to clean out the glue/gunk, so maybe just bite the bullet and get a set??? I've also seen hand versions and powered versions, any plus or minus to these????]

A pen kit. It has been suggested a slimline is a simple get started version.

Proper size bushings

Most likely a drill bit (7mm for the kits I'm looking at)

CA glue [I hate CA glue because it seems that about 99% of it that I have purchased has gone in the trash, the other 1% got used, it has always this way for me, it expires one way or another and every time I go back to use it....] OK I'd like to know what is the smallest amount I can get and will last for a good long time???????????? I do not plan to treat the wood with it, just glue the parts together that need gluing (assembly).

And of course the wood/plastic blank. I think I will start with wood.

I don't know if this helps but I plan to put an order in to Craft Supplies / Woodturners catalog soon after Jan 5th and if any of the items on my list above could be added and maybe I could save on some of the postage that way?????

And lastly, I've come across the term postable and non-postable, anyone want to have a go as to what that means????

Ed

[nuhobby]

Sounds like you're well on your way. I'll just pitch in my thoughts on barrel trimmers.

A standard steel 7mm-shaft barrel trimmer can go a long way. The carbide version is a very good upgrade in terms of keeping the edge.

I also follow a reader's tip from a woodworking magazine. For bigger pens with the brass-tube I.D. greater than 7mm, I have not bought more trimmers . In those cases I carefully wrap my trimmer's shaft with some blue tape, to make it fit concentrically inside the tube.

The barrel-trimmer I find to be very important. If I drill my pen-blanks with some odd scrap of figured wood (I've used virtual splinters of remnants before), the barrel trimmer ensures I get the ends nice and square. I've even found a few times during Turning that I'll take the blanks off the mandrel and re-trim them, so that they really meet the bushings nice and square.

[tom_k/mo]

I'll second on the importance of trimming the wood. A barrel trimmer is a good investment, but you CAN use your sanding disk and your table saw table to trim them also. I've seen it done by butting the wood blank up to the fence on a crosscut fence and pushing it into the sanding disk to sand the excess wood off to the barrel. Either way, trimming is important. One of the few pens that I had "blow-out" happened when I didn't do a good job of trimming the barrel (found out later) and when chucking the blank up on the mandrel it put pressure on the wood instead of the barrel. When turning the blank, as the wood got thin, it buckled due to the pressure on it and split.

I believe the glue you were referring to is Gorilla Glue. I've had good luck with it as well as C/A glue, just take some coarse sandpaper and rough up the outside of the brass tube first.

[pennview]

Another point about the barrel trimmer is that it ensure that the wood is trimmed perpendicular to the tube, which is important for assembly of the pen parts and avoids any unsightly gaps between the wood and metal parts. When you drill the hole through the pen blank, it isn't always parallel to the sides of the blank, so simply squaring the ends to the sides won't always ensure that the blank ends are perpendicular to the tube.

If you're not going into production work on the pen making, a hand trimmer is sufficient. In addition to squaring the ends, it also removes glue from inside the tubes. Excess glue there can cause problems in pen assembly. Also note that polyurethane or Gorilla Glue also has a relatively short shelf life after opening, but I prefer it to CA for gluing tubes into wood pen blanks, but either works, as does epoxy.

[JPG]

A thought from someone else who has never turned a pen!

Trimming blank ends square after drilling and tube insertion/glueing:

Since the drilling will probably NOT be square to the outer sides, some means of aligning the ends to the tube is necessary(the purpose of the trimmer as I unnerstanit).

If the disc sander is being considered(makes sense to me!) a way to insure the tube is perpendicular to the disk is needed.

How bout, the tailstock arbor adapter, drill chuck, drill bit sized to match the tube ID.

Mount all that on the tailstock, carefully advance the disc to abrade the end, flip end for end and repeat.

You will be using the center of the disc sander which is relatively slow moving and usually never used(worn down). Support of the end may be prudent:rolleyes:, but realize the abrading is rotary so a clamp down may be best.

An older steel 500 disc would be better due to NO arbor hole.

[fjimp]

Ed,

I do remember I owe you some vendors for pen blanks. Two of my vendors have disappeared another seems to be unavailable until the holidays are over. I will say that my favorite source for purchasing interesting blanks is Ebay. I have learned that I need to use care that the sellers have been at it for awhile and their ratings by former clients are crucial. For more common blanks I ask friends who are cutting apple, cherry or other desirable trees for wood. My favorite experience was discovering too late about a large cherry tree having been cut down and split for firewood. I called the friend who ended up with the wood. Our of a couple of split logs I managed to save over 50 pen blanks and several 3 X 3" 24" long blanks for more interesting projects. As to trimmers I make this suggestion; http://www.pennstateind.com/store/PKTRIMKITC.html

This tool works with many common kit sizes. I turn a fair number of pens and am on my second set. As to glue for blanks I suggest: http://www.pennstateind.com/store/PKGLUE61.html

I have tried several and keep returning to this one. For slimline bushings "7MM" try this set http://www.pennstateind.com/store/PKM-BUSH3-6.html Please keep in mind that you need to buy six slimline kits to get this price. Hare is a link to one of my favorite kit sets; http://www.pennstateind.com/store/PK-PENSAT.html

One additional item I suggest is a good 7mm drill bit for pen blanks; http://www.pennstateind.com/store/PK-7MMCT.html

Okay since I am making a fool of myself here how about the shopsmith mandrel link; http://www.pennstateind.com/store/PKM-CL.html

Then again there is always the 60 degree live center; http://www.pennstateind.com/store/LCENTLT2.html

Hey that one is even on sale right now. Okay enough is enough. Good luck. Jim

[reible]

Hi,

Thanks for the links, it was nice of you to go the extra distance to do that and see the exact parts you are talking about rather then having to search and hope you find the right things.

Only a few more days before I can put an order in for at least a few more of the items I need. I may run out of funds this month with out having all that I need but then there is Feb, and perhaps Mar. before I can get at turning anyway.

I do hope I enjoy my experience and decide to make a lot of them, other wise this first pen is going to be rather expensive. I guess that would go under "tooling" charges, an almost one time thing.

Ed

Ed,

I do remember I owe you some vendors for pen blanks. Two of my vendors have disappeared another seems to be unavailable until the holidays are over. I will say that my favorite source for purchasing interesting blanks is Ebay. I have learned that I need to use care that the sellers have been at it for awhile and their ratings by former clients are crucial. For more common blanks I ask friends who are cutting apple, cherry or other desirable trees for wood. My favorite experience was discovering too late about a large cherry tree having been cut down and split for firewood. I called the friend who ended up with the wood. Our of a couple of split logs I managed to save over 50 pen blanks and several 3 X 3" 24" long blanks for more interesting projects. As to trimmers I make this suggestion]http://www.pennstateind.com/store/PKTRIMKITC.html[/URL]

This tool works with many common kit sizes. I turn a fair number of pens and am on my second set. As to glue for blanks I suggest: http://www.pennstateind.com/store/PKGLUE61.html

I have tried several and keep returning to this one. For slimline bushings "7MM" try this set http://www.pennstateind.com/store/PKM-BUSH3-6.html Please keep in mind that you need to buy six slimline kits to get this price. Hare is a link to one of my favorite kit sets; http://www.pennstateind.com/store/PK-PENSAT.html

One additional item I suggest is a good 7mm drill bit for pen blanks; http://www.pennstateind.com/store/PK-7MMCT.html

Okay since I am making a fool of myself here how about the shopsmith mandrel link; http://www.pennstateind.com/store/PKM-CL.html

Then again there is always the 60 degree live center; http://www.pennstateind.com/store/LCENTLT2.html

Hey that one is even on sale right now. Okay enough is enough. Good luck. Jim

[fjimp]

Ed,

You are most welcome. I have frequently thought posting that particular group of links might be helpful to new pen turners. The truth is that one could post an endless number of links. I generally try to refrain from negate comments on products. However Penn State sells a set of lathe tools carrying the brand name of Benjamins Best, never ever will I buy them again. Pure junk. Most of the items I have purchased from PennState are great however. Jim

[wa2crk]

I don't like the barrel trimmer cause they seem to put too much outward pressure on the blank and they split the blank. I use the belt sander to square the end of the blank, but then I also use blanks that I make and I cut them as square as possible. If you do use scrap wood and it is not square you can drill as accurately as possible and then turn the blank round. Then it is possible to use a "V" block to hold the unfinished blank and use the disc sander or the belt sander to square the ends.
Bill V

[terrydowning]

As an avid pen maker here is my 2 cents. You have all of the tools required.

Here is the process I use.

Read, understand and FOLLOW THE DIRECTIONS for your kit.

Determine the blank sizes typically 1/16" longer than the pen tube to leave romm for drilling variance and squaring.

Drill using your nova chuck and drill chuck in the tail stock with the appropriate size bit for your kit of choice. It's much more accurate than the drill press.

Glue in the tubes and let the glue cure.
Square the blank to the tube. If you have the miter gauge stop rod, insert that into your miter gauge and set it up so the stop rod is square to the sanding disc. Alternately, you can use the drill chuck mounted in the tail stock with a cut off carriage bolt of the appropriate size. Just adjust the eccentric so it is off center. Leave enough room between the rod and the sanding disc to mount the drilled and glued blank then use the quill advance to contact the sanding disc to the blank.
Squaring the blanks to the tubes is essential, I have never purchased or used a barrell trimmer.

Mount the 1/4 inch chuck onto the head stock and use that to hold the mandrel.
Mount the blanks and bushings onto your mandrel in the order described in the pen kit's directions. DO NOT over tighten the blank onto the mandrel and DO NOT overtighten when engaging the mandrel to the live center, many a mandrel has been bent doing this.

Turn to just over the bushing size and use sandpaper to get to final size. Unless you are comfortable with the skew. I use my skew and measure the diameter of the turned barrel with calipers against the matching component to make sure the sizes line up. (My bushings are worn and I'm too frugal to buy more. I just use them as spacers and measure now.)

Sand and Finish with your preffered finish.

I use the quill and tail stock as my press, I just turned a scrap of maple to fit in the hole for the tail stock eccentric and press against that. Some people use clamps, some use expensive pen presses, yopu can usea bench vise, use what ever it takes without destroying the pen.

Wipe down the pen and your done.

Read, understand and FOLLOW THE DIRECTIONS for your kit.

I used to feel the same about CA glue until I got into pen turning. Now I never have enough. CA glue makes a spectacular glossy finish that last a long time. I use Medium viscosity CA glue for gluing the tubes into the blanks mostly because I'm impatient and want to get turning.

The water activated glue foaming glue is polyurethane glue common name Gorilla glue. Not a bad choice but many turners prefer 5 min epoxy or CA.

The 7mm slimlne kit I believe is a great starter for 2 reasons. very inexpensive so you don't feel too bad when you make a mistake. Many vendors have apprentice/funline/starter kits with less expensive platings and hardware, I recommend these to start with. The 2 barrell slime line is actually not the easiest to turn, but they are very good practice. If you can master the slimline, then you can pretty much turn any kit out there.

I ofetn make my own blanks. 5/8" square or greater stock longer than 4/12" This is also an inexpensive way to get practice blanks.

I reccomend going to penturners.org for even better how to's and examples of just what is possible with pen making.